Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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Fritzpw_Admin -> Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread (4/20/2005 1:39:58 PM)

In order to facilitate the ease of moderating this topic we have created a discussion devoted to the topic.

Discuss the issues of the woman's role in the home and how it relates to her husband and/or father.

The intent of this thread is to discuss the roles of men and women in the home.



saved97 -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/20/2005 4:07:24 PM)

I personally feel a woman's role in the family is based off of Titus 2. Some books that elaborate on each subject are : A Woman's High Calling by Elizabeth George, The Power of a Praying Woman by Stormie Ortman, and Apples of Gold by Betty Huizenga.



joint heir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/20/2005 4:15:08 PM)

Love your husband

Manage your family/home a manager delegates...they don't do everything by themselves

contribute to the family income (proverbs 31)...whether through good offense (bringing income in)....or defense (keeping money from slipping out by doing things you would otherwise pay to have done)



Keabird -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/20/2005 9:53:16 PM)

Hmm... interesting topic with a HUGE array of possible answers...

Firstly, the thread doesn't specify whether said woman is married or not. Is she a single lady? Is she is widow? Is she a single mother, whether through divorce or other circumstance? Is she married with children or without? If she has children in her care, are they all her own, a mixture or someone else's child(ren)?

Role ... I would think, in all cases, to be a Christlike woman of God. Hardworking (no matter whether she works in the home or out of it) - in other words, not lazy. A person of integrity; that is, honest, conscientious, well-spoken and not crass in her speech. A role model of kindness and generosity. Balanced in firmness in her home - not given to too much leniency, and not given to too much control. Someone who can keep her word - not a gossip. Whatever she does, she does with her whole heart, putting 100% effort into it - even if her share of the housework is just to empty the dishwasher, because she is at work at other times (as an example). If she is a mother of young children, to take very good care of them physically and emotionally. If she is a mother of older children, to be wise in discipline and someone they know they can trust in and confide in - someone they know they will receive a fair hearing from and wise advice. If she is a wife, someone who openly shows Christ's love to her husband - physically affectionate, respectful of his views without negating her own, and living kindness towards him just because she wants to, before the Lord. If she is single, she is to be a person of integrity, reliable in her share of things in the home, whatever they may be, and a trustworthy and kind neighbour. If she has stepchildren, she is to show Christ's acceptance of the other children, and His love and kindness, treating them fairly, and in as much as possible, how she would treat her own children if she doesn't have any of her own. Being someone they know they can trust and lean on.

I am sure there is lots and lots more - and all that could be equally applied to a man's role in the home ... [;)]



heatherer5 -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 8:55:06 AM)

a Christian woman's role in the home is to take care of the family and the house. i believe that it is the husband's job to bring the money home and not the wife's. the wife is to be a servant (not slave) to her husband and children.

i see no problem in the woman doing all the housework - even though it's nice when hubbies help out around the house. i'm thankful my husband does that.

dinner should be on the table when he gets home from work, and the wife should look fresh and ready to be attentive to her husband.

She should be in prayer everyday for her family.

a woman is to submit to her husband. he is the head of the house.

i don't believe woman should be working outside of the home once they have children. in this day and age people feel both husband and wife have to in order to make enough money. if a woman can help it at all, they should be at home taking care of the children. even if you have to give up that second car, or move to a smaller, less expensive house, maybe we don't need a pool etc.....

that's just my opinion. i love being a stay-at-home mom, being a servant to my husband, without being a doormat. i love my husband, and he takes such good care of me.

~ Erika



momfree -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 10:05:52 AM)

Exactly there are so many scenarios.
I'm a single mom, so I DO work outside the home.
I make dinner after I come home, and YES in all aspects am a servant to the house and them.
I honestly would resent if I had another capable adult there expecting me to "serve" them just because they brought the bread home....especially if I contributed. Marriage in my opinion is about partnership, not one-upmanship.
But that's beside the point.
It's my duty to protect my children, feed them, put a roof over their head, keep them medically insured, ensure their education is going well, take then to Sunday School, ensure they still have a good relationship with their dad and pray, love and protect them, guard their hearts and souls from as much hurt as I can, give them a home that is peaceful and loving. That's my role. Oh.....and clean and feed their pets also ;)



lynnmoon -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 10:43:00 AM)

Hmmm....I agree with some of what other folks have said. There are so many scenarios.


I think THIS woman's role in her home is to keep it afloat. As it ralates to my husband or father? It doesn't as I don't live with or near either a husband or father. When I had a husband, I did feel that he was the head of the home and that I needed to submit to his leadership. But even that didn't necessarily speak to specific tasks or jobs. My role was to be the woman of the house. My role is still to be the woman of the house. My jobs increased when there was a baby of the house. Some decreased when there was no longer a man of the house, lol.

But my role is to pretty much do what needs to be done in life and submit myself to the Lord in doing so. But I think that's everybody's job, so I don't know how specific to women that is.



sadiebelle -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 11:33:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joint heir

Love your husband

Manage your family/home a manager delegates...they don't do everything by themselves

contribute to the family income (proverbs 31)...whether through good offense (bringing income in)....or defense (keeping money from slipping out by doing things you would otherwise pay to have done)

Great post! I would add the training up of Christian children to that list. It's hard work but it consumes most of my day and the rewards from it are some of my bigger blessings and encouragements from the Lord.



joint heir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 11:43:42 AM)

yeah ...I included the training of children into the mangaging of the home and family...but it deserves to stand alone...

and I also included submission into the love you husband...since they are two sides of the same coin....



sadiebelle -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 12:03:25 PM)

I honestly think that ever since God showed me my purpose in the home, I have been living on clud nine. I used to work outside the home fulltime and my kids were in daycare most of the day. My husband and I fought over chores because both of us were tired. My kids didn't respect either one of us because they were used to the lazy discipline at school and daycare. I was always too tired for sex and my husband I were drifting apart.

Now--


it's the total opposite. He comes home from work and takes one look at the clean house, dinner cooking, and the happy kids and showers me with love and affection. It works!



christian_lady -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 12:54:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heatherer5

a Christian woman's role in the home is to take care of the family and the house. i believe that it is the husband's job to bring the money home and not the wife's. the wife is to be a servant (not slave) to her husband and children.

i see no problem in the woman doing all the housework - even though it's nice when hubbies help out around the house. i'm thankful my husband does that.

dinner should be on the table when he gets home from work, and the wife should look fresh and ready to be attentive to her husband.

She should be in prayer everyday for her family.

a woman is to submit to her husband. he is the head of the house.

i don't believe woman should be working outside of the home once they have children. in this day and age people feel both husband and wife have to in order to make enough money. if a woman can help it at all, they should be at home taking care of the children. even if you have to give up that second car, or move to a smaller, less expensive house, maybe we don't need a pool etc.....

that's just my opinion. i love being a stay-at-home mom, being a servant to my husband, without being a doormat. i love my husband, and he takes such good care of me.

~ Erika


I agree with your post, however, our life has been down-sized as much as possible and I still have to work to make ends meet. I would like to be able to stay home with my kids, but it is not possible for us. We only own one car and live in a small trailor outside of town. We don't own a pool or any other sort of luxuries. I have kept all costs to a minimum and have sacraficed much just to survive. Let's face it, life isn't as it used to be and it seems to get harder and harder for people to put food on the table for their families and pay the rent. We can't afford day care costs which is why my husband works evenings, so he can take care of the kids during the day and I work days to take care of them during the evenings. Plus we don't want our kids growing up in a day care. With that said, I still agree with your post, but although I agree, it is a life-style that is not possible for us, at least not presently.



heatherer5 -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 1:03:26 PM)

and you are right, jaime. it's harder today for parents, to have someone home with the kids. not all people are able to do that.

even i am forced to look for work until my husband can find a job himself. the only reason i mentioned the "second car, pool" thing was that some people complain that they can't work at home, yet they live in fancy places and have cars and pools, and ya don't need that.

as people have already mentioned...there are many situations and scenarios, and sometimes, women/mothers just can't help but work outside the home.

~ Erika



christian_lady -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 3:24:36 PM)

I totally agree. Often times ppl complain about not having the money to do certain things or like this situation, not being able to stay home due to bills, but the lives they live are so extravagant. We don't need those things, and that is exactly what they are, 'things'. The Father says He will provide for our needs, and really the needs are all that matters. I hope that one day I can stay home because I would love to be home with my kids and I know that my husband would like to be able to be the only one working. God bless.



joint heir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 3:33:27 PM)

Sometimes I "worry" that we americanize this subject too much....The Bible is for everyone of every nation....and while we enjoy the privilege of being able to stay home (and frankly spend too much time on the computer[&:]...yikes) there are women of other cultures who do(or did) have to spend much of the day away from their children...just to provide basic food and shelter

and I am convinced that God provides the grace for that situation...just like He does for women who have to work here in the US....single moms..etc...



momfree -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 3:55:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joint heir

Sometimes I "worry" that we americanize this subject too much....The Bible is for everyone of every nation....and while we enjoy the privilege of being able to stay home (and frankly spend too much time on the computer[&:]...yikes) there are women of other cultures who do(or did) have to spend much of the day away from their children...just to provide basic food and shelter

and I am convinced that God provides the grace for that situation...just like He does for women who have to work here in the US....single moms..etc...


Exactly joint heir...someof us (me being a single mom) don't have an option-it wasn't an option when I was still married either. We needed the health insurance he couldn't provide for just one of the small reasons i had to work.



Coheir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 4:16:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heatherer5

sometimes, women/mothers just can't help but work outside the home.

This is a prevailing sentiment in American evangelical Christian circles, and I don't agree with what this sentiment implies. It implies that women should work only because they have to. It implies that the scriptures talking about women being busy at home are the sum total of what women are to do, without taking into account the rest of scripture. It also assumes that all men have a calling unique to them - such as engineering, preaching, doctoring, plumbing, etc. - and all women have just one calling, and that is to be a wife/mother.

I posit here for your consideration:

Genesis 1:26-28 "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them , and said to them , 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Also, the parable of the talents, Matthew 15:14-29.

I see two hermaneutics at work here when it comes to men's and women's roles. The first one we apply to men's roles ... we seize upon the cultural mandate to rule and subdue the earth given to all of mankind in Genesis and give men carte blanche to fulfull this mandate throughout all time, creatively and progressively, without restriction.

And to women, we use a different hermaneutic. We immediately begin applying limits on it. We point to verses such as those in Titus 2 and treat it as the sum total of woman's role, instead of viewing it as simply one aspect of godly womanhood. We totally forget about the sweeping cultural mandate in Genesis that God gave to both men and women.

I am not suggesting that anyone neglect their children nor their household responsibilities. We are created in the image of a Creator God. In that light, surely men and women can be a little more creative about caring for their homes and families (and using their God-given talents to the fullest) than the 1950's Ozzie and Harriet template. In the United States, especially, we have that great luxury - with home based businesses, telecommuting, entrepreneurship, etc. - and we should take advantage of it.



moon_mouse -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 4:20:01 PM)

Hmmmm, I think this topic is a little too limited. Can we broaden it out a bit? [;)]


I can't recall specific instructions given to daughters only, rather than children in general.

Wives are given some specific instructions, primarily to see that their homes are well run, children cared for and instructed properly, and to submitt to their husbands. However, the Bible is pretty general about how those instructions are to be carried out. It doesn't specify that submission is either "husband gets 51% vote" or "win-win or no go." Proverbs 31 clearly shows that women can contribute to the finances of the household by economically compensated work, but given the differences between the "household" of the Biblical era and the suburban middle class household, a case could be made for either women working outside the home or not. No where does the Bible spell out specifics of how household work gets done, when dinner get served, and how many times per week dinner has to be homemade. All these things are wonderful ways of expressing love to a spouse or children, but they are only required of every woman in "the Gospel of June Cleaver."

Besides, not all women are wives. Not all women are mothers. Not all women have fathers living. Clearly, if we look at Jesus and His relationships with women, we see that women have value in themselves first, regardless of any roles they may or may not play in life. Frankly, I think people make far to much of a woman's "role". Compaired to the instructions given to Christians of both genders, instructions given to one gender or the other are fairly limited.



Keabird -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 6:53:00 PM)

quote:

This is a prevailing sentiment in American evangelical Christian circles, and I don't agree with what this sentiment implies. It implies that women should work only because they have to. It implies that the scriptures talking about women being busy at home are the sum total of what women are to do, without taking into account the rest of scripture. It also assumes that all men have a calling unique to them - such as engineering, preaching, doctoring, plumbing, etc. - and all women have just one calling, and that is to be a wife/mother.


I tend to agree with this - it sounded to me like the discussion was beginning to head in the direction that a woman being in the home, caring for house and children and serving husband is the IDEAL role for a woman.

I simply don't agree. We only have to read Proverbs 31 to see that the ideal woman THERE deals in property .. she goes out to buy a field, she keeps servants who take care of the house for her ... plus she is all the Godly things required. [:D]

I used to think my role was to be at home and keep the house and kids for husband. I can see now that that is not necessarily true at all, and that God allows us to go through circumstances that stretch our perspective on just what our role IS. If a particular individual believes that is her role for a given time, that is fine. But that doesn't mean that only SHE and other women in that role at the time are doing the ideal thing that women are meant to do and that other women doing different things are NOT.

I am in a unique kind of situation, which I can't share all of. But basically, because of certain circumstances, it is difficult for my hubby to get work. It probably will be for the rest of his life - and he is not young any more either! It is clear to me that I have just as much responsibility to provide for my family as he does, especially since I am in a more practical position to do so. I don't feel that I "have" to - I feel that is my God-given role and that I can enjoy it. Everything in balance of course - my children have to be taken care of too, and they are. They come before work, but the Lord allows parents to take care of their children and provide too. I don't use any kind of day-care either, so the Lord DOES allow people to have work situations that also allow them to make child-raising first priority.

As for the serving husband thing - my husband and I see that as a two-way concept. He serves where he can in the home, in the ways he is best able, and I do like-wise.

For a long time, I guess I held to the traditional idea of women in the home with children, deep down. But the Lord has well and truly challenged that and I can see that His plan can include a LOT more than that. Not to say that isn't a nice role to have, and many ARE called to that for a time - but it is not the only God-given role of a woman.

In Him, Sherri [:)]



Sideways -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/21/2005 7:29:37 PM)

Sherri, that was a wonderful post. Your words were far more eloquent than mine could ever be. Personally I would find it tragic if God designed half of the of the human population with only one acceptable role - that of stay-at-home wife & mother.

I am honored to be wife to my husband, and I'm certain I will be very proud to care for the children we are planning to have. But I also take great pride in the work God has called me to do as an engineer. I am called to help protect God's earth and encourage others to pursue environmentally friendly policies. I truely feel blessed to have this calling.

Since the Bible so obviously supports wives/mothers working to contribute to the family income (Proverbs 31), those who say it is not permissible, well , I have no choice but to find them legalistic and controlling. Such a concept is not the will of the God I serve.



joint heir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/22/2005 10:06:59 AM)

Just like a man's first priority is to his family....so is the woman's....
Both are called be good managers of the home/family....

Coheir...that was excellent post regarding how we assess the meaning of scripture differently for males and females....I agree wholeheartedly...

There is a balance to find here on this thread....women are to put their families first...but how they do that and how they meet those needs have to be left to their discretion....as I said earlier as long as she is seeking God for the right use of her time...He is glorified

Women are so cyclical and so different from a man....a woman's life is also seasonal....what her life looks like with she has little babies who need her breast and what her life looks like as her kids are requiring more independence are not the same...

Being able to stay at home is a blessing....having a job that provides neccessary resources is a blessing also



sadiebelle -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/22/2005 11:30:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sideways

Sherri, that was a wonderful post. Your words were far more eloquent than mine could ever be. Personally I would find it tragic if God designed half of the of the human population with only one acceptable role - that of stay-at-home wife & mother.

I am honored to be wife to my husband, and I'm certain I will be very proud to care for the children we are planning to have. But I also take great pride in the work God has called me to do as an engineer. I am called to help protect God's earth and encourage others to pursue environmentally friendly policies. I truely feel blessed to have this calling.

Since the Bible so obviously supports wives/mothers working to contribute to the family income (Proverbs 31), those who say it is not permissible, well , I have no choice but to find them legalistic and controlling. Such a concept is not the will of the God I serve.

I like what you have to say here, and without trying to step on anyone's toes, I must say that the Proverbs 31 woman did indeed contribute to the finances, but she didn't report to a full-time, every day job. She made things at home to sell and she saved up the money she earned to buy an investment. I don't see how you can make a case for a woman with kids holding down a 9-5 from Proverbs 31. Correct me if I'm wrong.



Coheir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/22/2005 11:44:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joint heir

Women are so cyclical and so different from a man....a woman's life is also seasonal....what her life looks like with she has little babies who need her breast and what her life looks like as her kids are requiring more independence are not the same...

Being able to stay at home is a blessing....having a job that provides neccessary resources is a blessing also

Good thoughts, Joint. I would also add to that. In general a woman's life is seasonal. But I believe that much damage has been done to women and men and God's glory when we take what's general and descriptive and make it into a prescriptive law. Or when we assume that all men are one way, and all women another. This creates an unnecessary bondage that prevents people from fully using their gifts and fulfilling their callings.



Sideways -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/22/2005 11:46:23 AM)

Well sadiebelle, I think in Biblical time, pretty everybody worked from home, and only ventured out occasionally (tentmakers for example). Pretty much nobody had a "9-5" job back then. So the examples used in that passage were typical jobs for that time period - jobs for both men and women.

It has been said here and on other forums that there are many different solutions to working women with children, and no one solution should be forced on all women. My solution will be to work part-time, stagger my schedule with my husband and when we both are working have the child with a family member or a home day-care run by a woman who goes to our church. We know her values and feel comfortable with them.



Coheir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/22/2005 11:46:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sadiebelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sideways

Sherri, that was a wonderful post. Your words were far more eloquent than mine could ever be. Personally I would find it tragic if God designed half of the of the human population with only one acceptable role - that of stay-at-home wife & mother.

I am honored to be wife to my husband, and I'm certain I will be very proud to care for the children we are planning to have. But I also take great pride in the work God has called me to do as an engineer. I am called to help protect God's earth and encourage others to pursue environmentally friendly policies. I truely feel blessed to have this calling.

Since the Bible so obviously supports wives/mothers working to contribute to the family income (Proverbs 31), those who say it is not permissible, well , I have no choice but to find them legalistic and controlling. Such a concept is not the will of the God I serve.

I like what you have to say here, and without trying to step on anyone's toes, I must say that the Proverbs 31 woman did indeed contribute to the finances, but she didn't report to a full-time, every day job. She made things at home to sell and she saved up the money she earned to buy an investment. I don't see how you can make a case for a woman with kids holding down a 9-5 from Proverbs 31. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Based on the Biblical models of men in a pre-industrial, agrarian culture, I don't see how you can make a case for a man to go to a 9 to 5 job either. We must apply a consistent hermaneutic here.



joint heir -> RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread (4/22/2005 12:01:01 PM)

Sadie...I don't think you are wrong...I don't think that the Bible makes the case either way....

If today a couple decided to start a home business and they had kids....we can all easily imagine how they might all contribute....no one would think that the wife would spend all day with the kids and never work on the business....likewise no one would imagine that the husband would work all day at the business and never deal with the kids ....

The problem is that our society "evolved" or transitioned to one where most work is away from the home....that causes a real problem for families...and now women (and men) have to make choices that they did not have to make in earlier societies....

but I think that the Holy Spirit certainly does not abandon us as we search for the right way to balance everything..and we all should come under the principle of relationships first...because scripture is very clear...

..and what works for one family will not work for another exactly the same way....every family is full of unique individuals...patterns and needs

So if a family is healthy and growing in the Lord and in God's will we have to accept that even though their choices may look different than the ours...it is right for them



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