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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 1:43:17 PM
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Gluelin
Posts: 36
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jadzia28
Well if a wife tells a husband she needs help with something and asks for it he should help her. Not sit around and say hes the man and he shouldnt have to do housework. Or its not his 'role'
I agree absolutely. If a wife asks for help and a husband refuses because he doesn't believe he should perform any task deemed "housework", that's absolutely pathetic!!!
But asking for help is different than expecting help:
quote:
Well I am a stay home mom of a 4 year old and an 8 month old. I am TIRED. If I cook dinner I expect him to do dishes. I expect him to help me fold clothes and put them away and I expect him to help me pick up the daily chaos (mess) every evening. I am just as tired and worn out as he is working at his job so I think its only fair. Does the tireless servant mentality only apply to others, and never to ourselves.
I know raising a 4 yo, an 8 month old is tiring and prevents you from getting to other tasks, and I don't know that I have a solution to offer, but, because you can't get it all done, is that justification to expect your husband to pitch in. If he says "no", that's insensitive and selfish, but if you continue to expect even after he says no, isn't that just as insensitive and selfish? Working and raising a family is often tough, but along with expectations of our spouse, I think there also needs to be structure, which keeps things from falling apart despite of all of the demands put upon a family just in ordinary living.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 1:56:04 PM
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floydette
Posts: 1089
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gluelin
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jadzia28
Well if a wife tells a husband she needs help with something and asks for it he should help her. Not sit around and say hes the man and he shouldnt have to do housework. Or its not his 'role'
I agree absolutely. If a wife asks for help and a husband refuses because he doesn't believe he should perform any task deemed "housework", that's absolutely pathetic!!!
But asking for help is different than expecting help:
quote:
Well I am a stay home mom of a 4 year old and an 8 month old. I am TIRED. If I cook dinner I expect him to do dishes. I expect him to help me fold clothes and put them away and I expect him to help me pick up the daily chaos (mess) every evening. I am just as tired and worn out as he is working at his job so I think its only fair. Does the tireless servant mentality only apply to others, and never to ourselves.
I know raising a 4 yo, an 8 month old is tiring and prevents you from getting to other tasks, and I don't know that I have a solution to offer, but, because you can't get it all done, is that justification to expect your husband to pitch in. If he says "no", that's insensitive and selfish, but if you continue to expect even after he says no, isn't that just as insensitive and selfish? Working and raising a family is often tough, but along with expectations of our spouse, I think there also needs to be structure, which keeps things from falling apart despite of all of the demands put upon a family just in ordinary living.
Expectations seem to always get us into trouble. Perhaps an honest discussion would work.
As far as a woman desiring her husband to help out. Gluein, it sounds like you think that may be selfish and insensitive, if he has said no in the past? Is that accurate? If so, then it would also be selfish and insensitive for him to say no. Correct?
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 3:50:05 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1178
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quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Scripture quite clearly defines gender-specific roles and responsibilities. My Bible also says “ it is better to obey than to sacrifice.” This also pertains to God’s will within the true Christian’s home for husbands and wives.
I would aregue that Scripture draws broad outlines of gender specific roles, but it doesn't "clearly define" them. For example, Scripture says a man is to provide for his family. Ok, fine. Does that mean he is to be the sole provider of income? Or does it mean he must provide at least 51% of the income? Or can a man provide for his family by creating a situation in which his wife can use her more marketable skills to bring in more income than would otherwise be possible. Scripture doesn't specify how the roles are to be fulfilled, except in the broadest of terms.
Here's a pretty specific reference pertaining to a godly wife:
Prov 31:10-30
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 4:07:01 PM
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Coheir
Posts: 122
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Scripture quite clearly defines gender-specific roles and responsibilities. My Bible also says “ it is better to obey than to sacrifice.” This also pertains to God’s will within the true Christian’s home for husbands and wives.
I would aregue that Scripture draws broad outlines of gender specific roles, but it doesn't "clearly define" them. For example, Scripture says a man is to provide for his family. Ok, fine. Does that mean he is to be the sole provider of income? Or does it mean he must provide at least 51% of the income? Or can a man provide for his family by creating a situation in which his wife can use her more marketable skills to bring in more income than would otherwise be possible. Scripture doesn't specify how the roles are to be fulfilled, except in the broadest of terms.
Here's a pretty specific reference pertaining to a godly wife:
Prov 31:10-30
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
These are all good things, and P31 is a good role model, but to suggest that this is a "checklist" by which all women should be measured is absurd.
I invite your attention to verses 16 and 24 - not only does she run a household, she's also a helping to support her family financially through her business ventures.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 4:55:29 PM
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Gluelin
Posts: 36
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Expectations seem to always get us into trouble. Perhaps an honest discussion would work.
As far as a woman desiring her husband to help out. Gluein, it sounds like you think that may be selfish and insensitive, if he has said no in the past? Is that accurate? If so, then it would also be selfish and insensitive for him to say no. Correct?
Point 1, it's not accurate that I think a woman (or man) asking spouse to help out is selfish and insensitive. What I was addressing was the expectation as conveyed in an earlier post. Point 2, yes its selfish (maybe) for him to say no, and I think that's what I said in one of my earlier posts. If DH says no (and we agree on the insensitivity/selfishness involved), then it may be insensitive/selfish for DW to expect it beyond the no. If DH comes home one day and say "we just need more income, I expect you (DW) to get a job to help out" and DW says, "no, I want to stay home with the babies", is DW being insensitive and selfish? I don't believe she is just as I don't believe DH is after he comes home and says I'm not going to help fold clothes because I'm tired from work.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 4:58:49 PM
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moon_mouse
Posts: 378
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Coheir
These are all good things, and P31 is a good role model, but to suggest that this is a "checklist" by which all women should be measured is absurd.
I invite your attention to verses 16 and 24 - not only does she run a household, she's also a helping to support her family financially through her business ventures.
Thank heavens it's not a prescription, else I'd be an ungodly wife for not spinning my own thread, weaving my own cloth, and sewing my own clothes, LOL!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 5:34:43 PM
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Jadzia28
Posts: 22
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gluelin
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Expectations seem to always get us into trouble. Perhaps an honest discussion would work.
As far as a woman desiring her husband to help out. Gluein, it sounds like you think that may be selfish and insensitive, if he has said no in the past? Is that accurate? If so, then it would also be selfish and insensitive for him to say no. Correct?
Point 1, it's not accurate that I think a woman (or man) asking spouse to help out is selfish and insensitive. What I was addressing was the expectation as conveyed in an earlier post. Point 2, yes its selfish (maybe) for him to say no, and I think that's what I said in one of my earlier posts. If DH says no (and we agree on the insensitivity/selfishness involved), then it may be insensitive/selfish for DW to expect it beyond the no. If DH comes home one day and say "we just need more income, I expect you (DW) to get a job to help out" and DW says, "no, I want to stay home with the babies", is DW being insensitive and selfish? I don't believe she is just as I don't believe DH is after he comes home and says I'm not going to help fold clothes because I'm tired from work.
I expect my husband to help! And me expecting him to does not make me selfish! If he is going to be a part of this household and make messes and dirty clothes and dishes why shouldnt he pitch in to help clean those things up?? I am not his maid nor his slave. I dont expect him to do it all or even half. I do expect him to help. I do ask for help but sometimes I want him to see how tired I am and help without me asking for it. Sometimes I want to be able to ask and him not whine about it. Most of the time he does help me. Now if he did come home and ask me to get a job to help financially I would say no and I have said no. Specifically because 90% of my paycheck or more would go to pay for daycare and I am not going to bust my behind all day to make 20 bucks a week. To put my children in a decent daycare might take all my paycheck or even more than I would make. I think that is ridiculous. I would rather stay home save money on daycare and find a few ways to make a little money on the side. I do hate though when I spend all day cleaning and taking care of the kids and he comes home, never mentions how nice the house looks, how good the dinner is. Takes off his nasty work clothes and pitches them on the floor. Dirtys his dishes and doesnt even put them in the sink let alone offer to wash them. Plops down in front of the baseball game and asks if I will make him some popcorn and get him a beer! That is my husband a few years ago. Now he still doesnt acknowledge my cleaning all the time. He will clean sometimes if I cook. He helps me clean up a little more. He is getting there. I grew up with a father though that would see a mess or something that needed to get done and he would just do it. He didnt wait for my mom to ask. She was no slacker either. You could eat off this woman's floors. My father would never just relax while mom had things to do though. He would pitch in until those things were done and then they would relax together. I have never seen my parents fight or even have a harsh word for one another. I have never seen a man love a woman like my father loves my mom. I have never seen a more manly man, a more Godly man than my father. I wish my husband would be more like that but his father was not as good of an example.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 5:48:22 PM
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peaceful2
Posts: 17
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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I admit I didn't read every single post.  But I read a lot.
Here's what happens in our house, if something needs to be done, the person who can do the best job does it...given other time committments.
If either one of us is unwilling or unable to do something that needs to be done, for whatever reason, we hire an outside resource. So if I can't get to cleaning the house due to my schedule (doesn't happen very often but it does happen), if hubby can't pick up what I usually do, we hire a maid service. If he can't get to putting in the garage door openers, and I can't figure out how to do it, then we hire someone to do so.
If we want to save the money, we find a way to get it done. If not, it clearly isn't enough of a priority to not spend cash on it to see that it's done.
None of these gender roles discussions have ever come up (even when I was a stay at home mom). It's not worth the time or effort or disagreements that could result. When there's something neither of us likes to do that needs to be done, we flip a coin. Or we hire someone to do it. Simple as that.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 5:49:26 PM
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Jadzia28
Posts: 22
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peaceful2
I admit I didn't read every single post. But I read a lot.
Here's what happens in our house, if something needs to be done, the person who can do the best job does it...given other time committments.
If either one of us is unwilling or unable to do something that needs to be done, for whatever reason, we hire an outside resource. So if I can't get to cleaning the house due to my schedule (doesn't happen very often but it does happen), if hubby can't pick up what I usually do, we hire a maid service. If he can't get to putting in the garage door openers, and I can't figure out how to do it, then we hire someone to do so.
If we want to save the money, we find a way to get it done. If not, it clearly isn't enough of a priority to not spend cash on it to see that it's done.
None of these gender roles discussions have ever come up (even when I was a stay at home mom). It's not worth the time or effort or disagreements that could result. When there's something neither of us likes to do that needs to be done, we flip a coin. Or we hire someone to do it. Simple as that.
Not everyone can hire help
_____________________________
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 5:52:23 PM
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peaceful2
Posts: 17
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Not everyone can hire help
Then they need to get their priorities straight (which may include letting some things go), grow up and realize that they have to work as a team and take care of what needs to be taken care of. The good of the whole comes before the individual's good in a marriage or when there's a family.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 5:53:45 PM
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cherokee
Posts: 8
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Then they need to get their priorities straight (which may include letting some things go), grow up and realize that they have to work as a team and take care of what needs to be taken care of. The good of the whole comes before the individual's good in a marriage or when there's a family.
Amen! Amen! Amen! You go sister!
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 5:56:45 PM
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Blackfoot
Posts: 2
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Then they need to get their priorities straight (which may include letting some things go), grow up and realize that they have to work as a team and take care of what needs to be taken care of. The good of the whole comes before the individual's good in a marriage or when there's a family.
Absolutely!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 6:12:25 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1992
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: moon_mouse
quote:
ORIGINAL: Coheir
These are all good things, and P31 is a good role model, but to suggest that this is a "checklist" by which all women should be measured is absurd.
I invite your attention to verses 16 and 24 - not only does she run a household, she's also a helping to support her family financially through her business ventures.
Thank heavens it's not a prescription, else I'd be an ungodly wife for not spinning my own thread, weaving my own cloth, and sewing my own clothes, LOL!
Heh. On one hand, no labor saving appliances.
On the other hand, she had servants. While she was a hard working woman and managed her household well, her servants freed her up to pursue the business ventures.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 7:06:52 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4932
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: online
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quote:
Heh. On one hand, no labor saving appliances.
On the other hand, she had servants. While she was a hard working woman and managed her household well, her servants freed her up to pursue the business ventures.
I consider my washing machine, dryer, and dishwasher to be my "servant girls." When I pour detergent into my servant girls, I consider that the Proverbs 31 equivelant of giving them their portions.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/12/2005 8:15:59 PM
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HisLamb26
Posts: 359
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
Does a half mile up the street to the local Stop & Shop count, or do I actually have to hunt for the meat to be considered for the Proverbs 31 prize?
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 11:36:52 AM
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floydette
Posts: 1089
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gluelin
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Expectations seem to always get us into trouble. Perhaps an honest discussion would work.
As far as a woman desiring her husband to help out. Gluein, it sounds like you think that may be selfish and insensitive, if he has said no in the past? Is that accurate? If so, then it would also be selfish and insensitive for him to say no. Correct?
Point 1, it's not accurate that I think a woman (or man) asking spouse to help out is selfish and insensitive. What I was addressing was the expectation as conveyed in an earlier post. Point 2, yes its selfish (maybe) for him to say no, and I think that's what I said in one of my earlier posts. If DH says no (and we agree on the insensitivity/selfishness involved), then it may be insensitive/selfish for DW to expect it beyond the no. If DH comes home one day and say "we just need more income, I expect you (DW) to get a job to help out" and DW says, "no, I want to stay home with the babies", is DW being insensitive and selfish? I don't believe she is just as I don't believe DH is after he comes home and says I'm not going to help fold clothes because I'm tired from work.
Thanks for clarifying your point.
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 11:54:11 AM
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floydette
Posts: 1089
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jadzia28
Takes off his nasty work clothes and pitches them on the floor. Dirtys his dishes and doesnt even put them in the sink let alone offer to wash them. Plops down in front of the baseball game and asks if I will make him some popcorn and get him a beer! That is my husband a few years ago. Now he still doesnt acknowledge my cleaning all the time. He will clean sometimes if I cook. He helps me clean up a little more. He is getting there. I grew up with a father though that would see a mess or something that needed to get done and he would just do it. He didnt wait for my mom to ask. She was no slacker either. You could eat off this woman's floors. My father would never just relax while mom had things to do though. He would pitch in until those things were done and then they would relax together. I have never seen my parents fight or even have a harsh word for one another. I have never seen a man love a woman like my father loves my mom. I have never seen a more manly man, a more Godly man than my father. I wish my husband would be more like that but his father was not as good of an example.
Growing up in different homes, means that there were different "rules" to live by. He may not know that his behavior is not ok. Rather than have expectations that he doesn't know about, have you had a chance to explain to him how his behavior affects you? Not demanding change, but rather discussion the situation as you see it?
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 12:53:24 PM
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Jadzia28
Posts: 22
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jadzia28
Takes off his nasty work clothes and pitches them on the floor. Dirtys his dishes and doesnt even put them in the sink let alone offer to wash them. Plops down in front of the baseball game and asks if I will make him some popcorn and get him a beer! That is my husband a few years ago. Now he still doesnt acknowledge my cleaning all the time. He will clean sometimes if I cook. He helps me clean up a little more. He is getting there. I grew up with a father though that would see a mess or something that needed to get done and he would just do it. He didnt wait for my mom to ask. She was no slacker either. You could eat off this woman's floors. My father would never just relax while mom had things to do though. He would pitch in until those things were done and then they would relax together. I have never seen my parents fight or even have a harsh word for one another. I have never seen a man love a woman like my father loves my mom. I have never seen a more manly man, a more Godly man than my father. I wish my husband would be more like that but his father was not as good of an example.
Growing up in different homes, means that there were different "rules" to live by. He may not know that his behavior is not ok. Rather than have expectations that he doesn't know about, have you had a chance to explain to him how his behavior affects you? Not demanding change, but rather discussion the situation as you see it?
We have been married 11 years. If he dont know the rules by now he aint been listnen!!!!! :) He knows, I tell him time and time again what I want from him. He is getting there but its like molassass on a cold day.... sorry feeling southern today :)
_____________________________
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 1:03:30 PM
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speaking
Posts: 21
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline
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Did you know he was like this BEFORE you married him?
Just a bit of pondering here and not directed at anyone in particular...
What is submission?
If one chooses to submit only when it is convenient or when one feels like the other deserves it then it REALLY isn't submission.
Submission means submitting even when you don't feel like it.
It means submitting even when the other person isn't deserving.
It means submitting even when the other person refuses to do so themselves.
THAT is true submission.
< Message edited by Speaking -- 10/13/2005 1:40:46 PM >
_____________________________
Personally Speaking
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 1:32:22 PM
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Jadzia28
Posts: 22
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Speaking
Did you know he was like this BEFORE you married him?
I find it intesting... What is submission?
If one chooses to submit only when it is convenient or when one feels like the other deserves it then it REALLY isn't submission.
Submission means submitting even when you don't feel like it.
It means submitting even when the other person isn't deserving.
It means submitting even when the other person refuses to do so themselves.
THAT is true submission.
Who said I wasnt submitting? How would I know how what he was like before I married him? I wouldnt unless we would have been living together. What does that have to do anything?
_____________________________
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 1:43:36 PM
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momfree
Posts: 125
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Speaking
Did you know he was like this BEFORE you married him?
I find it intesting... What is submission?
If one chooses to submit only when it is convenient or when one feels like the other deserves it then it REALLY isn't submission.
Submission means submitting even when you don't feel like it.
It means submitting even when the other person isn't deserving.
It means submitting even when the other person refuses to do so themselves.
THAT is true submission.
But what does submission have to do with the price of tea in china?
I really dont' see how to confuse submission with wanting, needing and deserving help around the home? And since was are ALSO to submit to eachother, shouldn't a spouse comply w/the others request ? So if you ask your husband for help time in and time out and he sais no, or says "later" (we ALL know what that means) you suggest "submitting" to it? Wouldn't the word be "accept"? Submit and accept, or expect are different things. Are you perhaps confusing the issues? And if some here can easily submit to being the maid and not expecting their husbands to carry any share in the home, well then I won't say I take my hat off to you becaues I really dont', I feel bad. I feel that your children will learn this: daughters will learn girls do it all and should submit to a lazy husband and not put any demands on him and live life as a maid. Boys will grow to expect their moms and then their wifes to do this later (believe me i know a LOT of these) and when the new wife doesn't take it, it ends tragically and they both hurt and are bitter towards eachother. In todays world just like thousands of years ago, both PARTNERS cared for and carried a home. Yes normally the wife has more domestic duties (though I dont' agree w/it) but reasonable help and servitude towards EACHOTHER exists. If it doesn't then it's not a partnership or good marriage imo, it's about one getting everything they want or need, and the other getting the brunt end of the deal. I've known ladies as such that in their 50's or later regret it (I know my mom does just for one). My brothers had to work hardly at helping their companions my dad STILL won't make his own lunch. I still see my mother tired, overwhelmed and silently resentful.
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"Peace is the absence of anger"
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 1:45:46 PM
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speaking
Posts: 21
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I've edited my post to more acurately reflect my pondering statement.
Jadzia, it was not my intention to accuse you of not submitting to your husband... I was just pondering aloud.
But then... I'm just...
Personally Speaking
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RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 10/13/2005 1:48:23 PM
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momfree
Posts: 125
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Jadz PM for you, you'll smile.
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"Peace is the absence of anger"
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No wonder some men are always holding her up as a standard!
