|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2007 8:01:53 PM
|
|
|
sjdawson
Posts: 67
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
From the priceless woman:
quote:
If there really were two leaders on this country, both with equal powers, then it would not take long before things would get out of hand. There would be a split, with everything being torn apart because you've got two people trying to make decisions and be the leader.
I can see it being a problem if each person was looking out for their own interests without regard for the other. In other words, not considering the other person. However, if each spouse is putting the other first, it really isn't a problem.
Perhaps this author needs a civics lesson? We have 3 co-equal branches of government. The idea is that (theoretically, at least) each branch would be a check on the other to prevent one from going out of control. As you said,if both spouses watch out for their mate's best interest, it would have the same effect.
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 8:22:46 AM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
When a wife submits to her husband she willingly places herself in a position of supportiveness. In it's proper context and use (the healthy mode) this is a position of strength, not weakness. She does this not on the basis of whether he deserves her support, but on the basis of her faith in God. Faith enables a woman to trust God's benevolence for her husband and herself. The exercising of such faith removes the struggle over power that can sometimes occur within a marital relationship, and the power that is obtained is not gained by force or even earned. It is a unique gift of grace a wife bestows upon her spouse. There is a Hebrew phrase for submission that literally means, "to give one's hand under" which connotes supportiveness in the submissive relationship. For many men, this can be a very humbling gift that inspires them to seek God concerning their own behavior toward their partners.
If our wives wait until we, as husbands, measure up to some fantasyland position of "perfection" to be submissive, then none of us can EVER attain that status. Biblical submission is based on faith, not works. It is grace. Wives understanding this concept usually have no problem in submitting to their husbands .... they understand the concept that this action is UNTO THE LORD. The pro-fem teaching would tell the Christian wife that she is a faceless doormat if she "subjects herself to her husband's rule". This thought is NOT born out in Scripture nor is it the reality when the HEALTHY AND BALANCED mode of submission is practised. She is, in fact, submitting herself to Jesus AS she submits herself to her husband. If she refuses to submit to her husband, then according to Scripture she CANNOT be submitted to Jesus .... in spite of what the egalitarianists would have her to believe. Secular thought cannot override the authority of the Bible. 
When a man humbles himself and submits himself to Jesus ..... his actions SHOULD be dictated by how this action blesses the Lord .... NOT just what he can GET from the Lord. It is predicated by faith, not by works. Just as works cannot be a prerequisite for salvation, works cannot be the centerpoint of the man submitting himself to Jesus. In other words, we do not have to perform in order to receive grace. 
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 8:49:27 AM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
Steve, with all due respect, it appears to be YOU needing the civics lesson. Our form of government in the US is NOT a democracy, it is a republic.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/abtamerica/overview.htm
"While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? "Constitutional" refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States. The Constitution not only provides the framework for how the federal and state governments are structured, but also places significant limits on their powers. "Federal" means that there is both a national government and governments of the 50 states. A "republic" is a form of government in which the people hold power, but elect representatives to exercise that power."
Too many people falsely assume a Christian marriage to be modeled after a democracy. Those believing this are already on the path to confusion. The Biblical model of family government is not a democracy. It clearly shows a ladder of authority ..... God, Jesus, man, woman, child .... and it is an abuse of power for any wife to seek to usurp the God-appointed leadership of her husband. Yes, she most definitley has a voice and a vote ..... and the wise husband will seek it out .... but she does NOT have the final authority in the marriage and she does NOT have veto power over her husband's final decision ..... when a decision must be made when there is no consensus.
I will fully agree with you that in a healthy marriage there should be limited times when a consensus can't be reached. But, reality tells us there ARE such times and it is THEN that the husband is .... IMO, and I believe the counsel of the Word backs it up ..... given the authority and the smarts to make that final decision. The wife, then, is relieved of the responsibility of that decision and she is obligated by the Word (setting aside such things as conscience, "feelings", or outside influences) to submit to him and obey. He will ultimately answer for it, she will not. The burden, then, comes onto the husband. This is both a blessing and a curse for the man of God seeking the will of God for his marriage and family. None of us guys are infallable, Steve, but that does NOT grant us the error of being passive and doubleminded. This weakness in all of us in NO way excuses us to abdicate our leadership role. If anything, it should be a motivation to sit at Jesus's feet and learn from Him. The spiritually healthy wife sitting at the feet of the Lord herself will see her man's efforts to hear from the Throneroom and she will be more than willing to give up the steering wheel. I am convinced of this, through many years of interaction with couples and as a DivorceCare facilitator.
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 10:11:10 AM
|
|
|
sjdawson
Posts: 67
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: PDChaplain
Steve, with all due respect, it appears to be YOU needing the civics lesson. Our form of government in the US is NOT a democracy, it is a republic.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/abtamerica/overview.htm
"While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? "Constitutional" refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States. The Constitution not only provides the framework for how the federal and state governments are structured, but also places significant limits on their powers. "Federal" means that there is both a national government and governments of the 50 states. A "republic" is a form of government in which the people hold power, but elect representatives to exercise that power."
Too many people falsely assume a Christian marriage to be modeled after a democracy. Those believing this are already on the path to confusion. The Biblical model of family government is not a democracy. It clearly shows a ladder of authority ..... God, Jesus, man, woman, child .... and it is an abuse of power for any wife to seek to usurp the God-appointed leadership of her husband. Yes, she most definitley has a voice and a vote ..... and the wise husband will seek it out .... but she does NOT have the final authority in the marriage and she does NOT have veto power over her husband's final decision ..... when a decision must be made when there is no consensus.
I will fully agree with you that in a healthy marriage there should be limited times when a consensus can't be reached. But, reality tells us there ARE such times and it is THEN that the husband is .... IMO, and I believe the counsel of the Word backs it up ..... given the authority and the smarts to make that final decision. The wife, then, is relieved of the responsibility of that decision and she is obligated by the Word (setting aside such things as conscience, "feelings", or outside influences) to submit to him and obey. He will ultimately answer for it, she will not. The burden, then, comes onto the husband. This is both a blessing and a curse for the man of God seeking the will of God for his marriage and family. None of us guys are infallable, Steve, but that does NOT grant us the error of being passive and doubleminded. This weakness in all of us in NO way excuses us to abdicate our leadership role. If anything, it should be a motivation to sit at Jesus's feet and learn from Him. The spiritually healthy wife sitting at the feet of the Lord herself will see her man's efforts to hear from the Throneroom and she will be more than willing to give up the steering wheel. I am convinced of this, through many years of interaction with couples and as a DivorceCare facilitator.
Please re-read my post. I neither stated that we live in a democracy, nor did I state that a marriage is a democracy. I stated that we have 3 branches of governemnt that have co-equal powers. I also stated that the reason for this was a check and balance system. I believe that marriage is the same. Ideally, spouses should act as a check and balance in the spiritual life of their partners. I am accountable to God and my wife and she in turn is accountable to God and to me. In that order.
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 11:54:52 AM
|
|
|
sjdawson
Posts: 67
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: PDChaplain
When a wife submits to her husband she willingly places herself in a position of supportiveness. In it's proper context and use (the healthy mode) this is a position of strength, not weakness. She does this not on the basis of whether he deserves her support, but on the basis of her faith in God. Faith enables a woman to trust God's benevolence for her husband and herself. The exercising of such faith removes the struggle over power that can sometimes occur within a marital relationship, and the power that is obtained is not gained by force or even earned. It is a unique gift of grace a wife bestows upon her spouse. There is a Hebrew phrase for submission that literally means, "to give one's hand under" which connotes supportiveness in the submissive relationship. For many men, this can be a very humbling gift that inspires them to seek God concerning their own behavior toward their partners.
If our wives wait until we, as husbands, measure up to some fantasyland position of "perfection" to be submissive, then none of us can EVER attain that status. Biblical submission is based on faith, not works. It is grace. Wives understanding this concept usually have no problem in submitting to their husbands .... they understand the concept that this action is UNTO THE LORD. The pro-fem teaching would tell the Christian wife that she is a faceless doormat if she "subjects herself to her husband's rule". This thought is NOT born out in Scripture nor is it the reality when the HEALTHY AND BALANCED mode of submission is practised. She is, in fact, submitting herself to Jesus AS she submits herself to her husband. If she refuses to submit to her husband, then according to Scripture she CANNOT be submitted to Jesus .... in spite of what the egalitarianists would have her to believe. Secular thought cannot override the authority of the Bible.
When a man humbles himself and submits himself to Jesus ..... his actions SHOULD be dictated by how this action blesses the Lord .... NOT just what he can GET from the Lord. It is predicated by faith, not by works. Just as works cannot be a prerequisite for salvation, works cannot be the centerpoint of the man submitting himself to Jesus. In other words, we do not have to perform in order to receive grace.
After reading your material, I feel that you concentrate far too much on the issue of submission of the wife. It seems to me that if the husband is the leader, then the bulk of the discussion should be on what the husband must do. Whenever I read your posts it is seems to be that if the marriage falls aprt it's because the wife wasn't submissive. Any male that deosn't assert leadership in the way that YOU feel that leadership should be asserted is classifies as a milquetoast or a wimp. Could it be that some of the marriages that you have seen in Divorce Care were mismatched personalities? That those people weren't counseled before marriage?
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 12:19:10 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4260
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: sjdawson
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
There's those pesky old consequences of the fall again...
"Is submission punishment for what Eve did? Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." No, I believe it is more a means of protection. We should thank God for taking care of us in such a way."
Submission is not punishment, it was already a perfect part of the lives of Adam/Eve from the beginning - it was untainted submission and because they were without sin, it was not an issue. But then sin comes in, consequences are handed down and now we have made it something totally unsavory because of our rebellion against God's word. Women will desire what is not there's to have and men will try to dodge the responsibility of leadership they've been given.
And why are we surprised? 
Quite frankly, some men (do not read ALL men) enjoy the radical feminists because they can reliquish their leadership and not have to make any decisions or be responsible in their own minds.
I'm still searching for that chart...it wasn't in the link from CBMW.
Please enlighten me. Genesis 3:16 is after the fall. So, when BEFORE the fall does it say ANYTHING about Eve submitting to Adam? Actually, I don't enjoy radical feminists. I find them to be as insufferable as those who cherry pick verses out of the Bible for their own agenda.
Steve
Man, the sarcasm in this thread is almost comical. 
It is a presupposition regarding the Trinity and the image of God - Jesus being in submission and so forth. Submission is not a punishment, not a consequence of the fall - I see nowhere that is evident as well.
Our sinful and rebellious atittude is what has made submission the dirty word and concept. Women will resist it and men will abuse it. There ya go...sin.
Our sinful minds have difficulty with any kind of godliness when it comes to submission because our experience has only shown it's abuse.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 1:48:25 PM
|
|
|
sjdawson
Posts: 67
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: sjdawson
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
There's those pesky old consequences of the fall again...
"Is submission punishment for what Eve did? Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." No, I believe it is more a means of protection. We should thank God for taking care of us in such a way."
Submission is not punishment, it was already a perfect part of the lives of Adam/Eve from the beginning - it was untainted submission and because they were without sin, it was not an issue. But then sin comes in, consequences are handed down and now we have made it something totally unsavory because of our rebellion against God's word. Women will desire what is not there's to have and men will try to dodge the responsibility of leadership they've been given.
And why are we surprised?
Quite frankly, some men (do not read ALL men) enjoy the radical feminists because they can reliquish their leadership and not have to make any decisions or be responsible in their own minds.
I'm still searching for that chart...it wasn't in the link from CBMW.
Please enlighten me. Genesis 3:16 is after the fall. So, when BEFORE the fall does it say ANYTHING about Eve submitting to Adam? Actually, I don't enjoy radical feminists. I find them to be as insufferable as those who cherry pick verses out of the Bible for their own agenda.
Steve
Man, the sarcasm in this thread is almost comical.
It is a presupposition regarding the Trinity and the image of God - Jesus being in submission and so forth. Submission is not a punishment, not a consequence of the fall - I see nowhere that is evident as well.
Our sinful and rebellious atittude is what has made submission the dirty word and concept. Women will resist it and men will abuse it. There ya go...sin.
Our sinful minds have difficulty with any kind of godliness when it comes to submission because our experience has only shown it's abuse.
I aplolgize, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I do, however, find that logic to be a bit of a stretch. Particularly since Gen 3:16 gives much better support. The Trinity may not be mentioned outright. However, there is distinct reference to three distinct persons in enough verses to lead to that conclusion. I don't believe that submission is punishment, but like many things may be attributed to fall out from the Fall.
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 3:01:48 PM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
Steve, if you will remember I WANTED to start another thread about the responsibilities of the man but the Mod and OP assured me this thread was sufficient to address BOTH roles ..... thought I would refresh your memory, brother.
Now, in response to this ......
I can't help what your "feelings" are about what I post. I also won't worry about them. I do think I have posted numerous references as to the man's conduct. Instead of a vain attempt to legitimize your pro-fem sister's views here ..... which has been the largest gist of your posts here .... why don't YOU center more of your time on the man's role??????
quote:
ORIGINAL: sjdawson
quote:
ORIGINAL: PDChaplain
When a wife submits to her husband she willingly places herself in a position of supportiveness. In it's proper context and use (the healthy mode) this is a position of strength, not weakness. She does this not on the basis of whether he deserves her support, but on the basis of her faith in God. Faith enables a woman to trust God's benevolence for her husband and herself. The exercising of such faith removes the struggle over power that can sometimes occur within a marital relationship, and the power that is obtained is not gained by force or even earned. It is a unique gift of grace a wife bestows upon her spouse. There is a Hebrew phrase for submission that literally means, "to give one's hand under" which connotes supportiveness in the submissive relationship. For many men, this can be a very humbling gift that inspires them to seek God concerning their own behavior toward their partners.
If our wives wait until we, as husbands, measure up to some fantasyland position of "perfection" to be submissive, then none of us can EVER attain that status. Biblical submission is based on faith, not works. It is grace. Wives understanding this concept usually have no problem in submitting to their husbands .... they understand the concept that this action is UNTO THE LORD. The pro-fem teaching would tell the Christian wife that she is a faceless doormat if she "subjects herself to her husband's rule". This thought is NOT born out in Scripture nor is it the reality when the HEALTHY AND BALANCED mode of submission is practised. She is, in fact, submitting herself to Jesus AS she submits herself to her husband. If she refuses to submit to her husband, then according to Scripture she CANNOT be submitted to Jesus .... in spite of what the egalitarianists would have her to believe. Secular thought cannot override the authority of the Bible.
When a man humbles himself and submits himself to Jesus ..... his actions SHOULD be dictated by how this action blesses the Lord .... NOT just what he can GET from the Lord. It is predicated by faith, not by works. Just as works cannot be a prerequisite for salvation, works cannot be the centerpoint of the man submitting himself to Jesus. In other words, we do not have to perform in order to receive grace.
After reading your material, I feel that you concentrate far too much on the issue of submission of the wife. It seems to me that if the husband is the leader, then the bulk of the discussion should be on what the husband must do. Whenever I read your posts it is seems to be that if the marriage falls aprt it's because the wife wasn't submissive. Any male that deosn't assert leadership in the way that YOU feel that leadership should be asserted is classifies as a milquetoast or a wimp. Could it be that some of the marriages that you have seen in Divorce Care were mismatched personalities? That those people weren't counseled before marriage?
Steve
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 3:07:42 PM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
Steve, here is my latest offering on the man's role .......
http://www.cbmw.org/resources/men.php
It will take you some time to read up on these, brother. May the Lord grant you discernment.
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 3:10:48 PM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
Here is the testimony of Dennis and Barbara Rainey from Family Life. This shows how the complementarian mode is healthy and how it should work.
http://www.cbmw.org/resources/articles/male_leadership.php
Male Leadership
by Dennis & Barbara Rainey
Q: In your articles and on radio, you talk about male leadership in the home. But it's also clear that, when you and Barbara are making a decision, you have a lot of interaction with each other. So what happens when Dennis feels strongly one way and Barbara feels strongly another way?
Dennis: First, I think it is clear that the Bible teaches that the husband is responsible for the direction of his home, family, and marriage. And so he is what is called "the head of the house." To me, that means it is my responsibility to go prayerfully before God and with my wife to consider the circumstances and to make a decision. If we can't come to a consensus, it falls upon me to make a decision. And we prefer it that way-if you have a "roleless marriage" where there is no final authority, that creates a greater ambiguity.
Barbara: And insecurity too. It seems to me they would be in a state of indecision.
Dennis: In those marriages, it seems that the stronger personality would win regularly.
Question: Do you ever make a decision to go with Barbara's option rather than your own?
Dennis: Absolutely. Any good leader knows that you need to gather all the facts and enlist those who may know the situation better than you before you make the decision. In many situations with the children, for example, Barbara will be far more versed and have much more insight into what is going on with the child emotionally and circumstantially. There have been numerous times when we have disagreed and I have asked her to go with me on decision. But there have been, I would guess, just as many where she has disagreed with me and I have changed my mind and gone with her.
Barbara: You've been real good about deferring to that woman's intuition in our relationship. There have been times when I just can't explain why I feel this is the right thing to do with a child. Unless you feel you have a strong case for another choice, you go with what I'm feeling. That validates me as a woman- that my opinions are worth considering and you are going to listen to them.
Dennis: I think we've developed a good amount of trust over the years as we have discussed so many decisions. We've learned that we need the other's input and advice. She will help me avoid problems, and vice versa.
The one area where I typically have not gone with Barbara's opinion over mine repeatedly is in the area of schedule. She has such a mother's heart in wanting to see our children develop their gifts, and it's easy for her to overcommit them and herself. I've seen the toll that takes on her. On more than one occasion I've urged her not to head in certain directions because of the need to protect our home. I feel part of my responsibility is to spiritually, emotionally, and physically protect my family, not merely from evil but from overscheduling, from busyness, and from activity. A good shepherd doesn't lead any faster than the sheep can follow!
Barbara: We went through a time when I was making a lot of decisions regarding the kids without Dennis because I knew how busy he was. I assumed I was saving him some grief, but as a result I was getting everyone overcommitted. I needed the protection that he offered when we make those decisions together. I'm glad to have him to help make decisions. And to tell me if I am wrong."
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 3:22:00 PM
|
|
|
KHutcheson
Posts: 54
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline
|
PD, perhaps you don't mean it this way, but it's patronizing to assume that Steve and others (myself included) have not read up on CBMW's position on these things. It was, in fact, their book that made me question the traditionalist point of view. I began to weigh what they claimed against scripture, and found their scholarship and exegesis (or should I say, eisegesis) severely wanting. I find the egalitarian point of view to be the biblical one ... not because I have an "agenda," not because I've been "brainwashed by the feminists," not because I'm a "wimpy leader and passive husband," but because it is scriptural. It is also my first-hand observation that it works better in marriage.
I have a beef with anyone who makes these assumptions about egalitarians:
1. we are rebelling against God
2. we clearly don't want to hear what scripture has to say
3. we don't believe in the inerrancy of the Bible
4. we are passive husbands (or rebellious wives)
5. we believe there are no differences bewteen men and women (It's because of those very differences between men and women that it is essential that leadership be shared between them.)
6. women just don't want to submit
They are all lies.
In fact, I have found that more egalitarians have studied both sides of the issue carefully. It is the traditionalists who are more likely to hold to the female subordination position without question. It is quite often an "inherited" position that is accepted without question.
As for the claim that women just don't want to submit, that's a laugh. Either way, our sisters still have to submit. It's just that for egalitarians, it's a two-way street. It is my belief that it is the male ego and fear of submission that makes them rebel so much against the commands of Eph 5:21, submit to one another.
Kevin
_____________________________
"The grace of God means something like: Here is your life. You might never have been, but you are because the party wouldn't have been complete without you." (Frederick Buechner)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 3:32:14 PM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
Kevin, thank you for sharing your opinion. We will continue to agree to disagree on this matter.
Doinkdom, I am sure my Mrs. would be happy to fellowship with you. You may go ahead and PM me with your contact info and I'll be glad to pass it along to her.
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 4:52:44 PM
|
|
|
myka
Posts: 797
Status: offline
|
PD, could you tell us more about the women in your Divorce Care group? What was their spiritual life like in general?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 5:36:23 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3576
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
I have decided that I will remove myself from this thread until I may decide at a later time that it has some draw for me in it. The subject is just too close for me to continue in it. For the rest of you, have fun!
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: RE:Men's/Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/14/2007 7:23:28 PM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
Hi, Myka. Thanks for the questions. My wife and I have discussed your questions and I am prepared to offer some info.
No two cases are ever exactly alike. The precious sisters in our support groups each have unique stories. Some are still legally married but separated, some are awaiting divorce filings, some are divorced already. I can tell you that the one factor they all share is that their husbands have failed them in many ways ..... chief of which, they would not submit to the Lord and they abdicated their positions of God-ordained leadership in their families.
Some have walked with the Lord for many years and we have had one who was a newbie Christian but backslid. They all share self-esteem issues. They all reached a point where they acknowledged their faults in the marriage. They are in varying degrees of healing and moving on with their lives.
They have all expressed a desire for a man of God who will respect them and lead them in a Christlike way. The need for Godly leadership for them has never been a question, even though some of them were abused by unhealthy men. They WANT to see the Biblical way of servant-leadership shown to them. They are just weary of being used and abused.
I have found the same mindset in many of the ladies I have counseled in lay ministry activities and in police chaplaincy, whether they are Christians or not. They don't mind submitting to loving, caring husbands. Fortunately, most of them in my experience have not yet been taught otherwise. IMO, this shows their God-bred softness and femininity and amplifies the differences between men and women ..... and their roles.
If you like, I'll be glad to share our experiences with the men ......
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
PD, could you tell us more about the women in your Divorce Care group? What was their spiritual life like in general?
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/15/2007 1:46:04 AM
|
|
|
dreamer2
Posts: 24
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: momfree
Exactly there are so many scenarios.
I'm a single mom, so I DO work outside the home.
I make dinner after I come home, and YES in all aspects am a servant to the house and them.
I honestly would resent if I had another capable adult there expecting me to "serve" them just because they brought the bread home....especially if I contributed. Marriage in my opinion is about partnership, not one-upmanship.
But that's beside the point.
It's my duty to protect my children, feed them, put a roof over their head, keep them medically insured, ensure their education is going well, take then to Sunday School, ensure they still have a good relationship with their dad and pray, love and protect them, guard their hearts and souls from as much hurt as I can, give them a home that is peaceful and loving. That's my role. Oh.....and clean and feed their pets also ;)
Well done. I totally agree that 'Marriage is about partnership, not one-upmanship.'
I had heard my boyfriend complained that I need to respect him as our bible told us to (but he could not say anything when I told him that the bible did not tell us to respect a super lazy man who needs babysitting...while claiming that he is the future head of the family)...
and in order to trade his IT support, driving to the supermarket once a week, I need to cook, wash dishes, cloths....vaccum clean,...he spent 1 hour per week while I spent 3 hours per day. A pastor told me that is intimidation, unacceptable.
He could negotiated on those terms on unfair basis, but I told him, love and trust are also negotiated at the same time. That's his gain for being exploiting.
My friend suggested me to send him back to his mother,....he is now enjoying his lazy life again happily under the shelter of his mum and father again.
I personally believe that a godly man will natually protect his wife physically, mentally and spiritually, and not rigidly defines their roles, to enslave them.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Women's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/15/2007 10:31:50 AM
|
|
|
PDChaplain
Posts: 159
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
|
We have just had two more worst case scenarios. I am sorry, ladies, that you had to endure two such passive and doubleminded men. Yet, on this thread at least, I have seen NOTHING to even vaguely suggest that anyone is seeking to "enslave" their women. Can you please provide specific examples, if you have read of that happening here?
Thanks and God bless!
_____________________________
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In this world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Jn 16:33
I do not accept PM's from ladies. Thank you and God bless!
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
and the newlyweds struggling to get it right are left confused. 
PRAISE THE LORD -- MY HUSBAND IS BACK FROM IRAQ 
