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ORIGINAL: Zhi

*sigh*

There's a difference between loving your neighbor, and recognizing that they might have different priorities when it comes to choosing an elected official for your own country when they're not part of your country.

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ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky

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ORIGINAL: Zhi

*sigh*

There's a difference between loving your neighbor, and recognizing that they might have different priorities when it comes to choosing an elected official for your own country when they're not part of your country.

*sigh*

last time I checked, there is still no difference. In other words, love your neighbor only if he loves you the way YOU want him to love you? The neighbor across teh street from you may not be part of your family. And he certainly puts his family before yours as I'm sure you do. Yet, you are still neighbors. Or do I have it all wrong? At the very LEAST, we are called to love even our enemies and pray for their conversion and what was it, "But if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him to drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head (Romans 12:20)." Or did I misunderstand that scripture? Of course other nations are going to show patriotism. I'd question them if they didn't. Does it have to be all or nothing? Love us the way we want you to, be like us or we have nothing to do with you? Since when did the Church turn to such lack of compassion for others? Do we actually think people will do us harm because they think differently than we do? Or worship differently than we do? Come on people. This is an international community. The last time I checked, America isn't the only country on the planet. Did you ever think for once what it COULD be like if you were born in a third world country instead of here? We should boast? It is the grace of God that we were chosen to be born in such a place. Let's not get to high and mighty that we can't fathom anything but complete submission from the rest of the world in order for us to accept them as different people and cultures.

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ORIGINAL: Zhi

I think you're entirely missing the point here.

I can love my neighbor and still not agree with his politics.

I can love my neighbor, and take a hard look at his motivations in wanting a political leader.

Disagreeing with my neighbor does not mean that I do not love my neighbor.

No one is suggesting that the rest of the world needs to submit to us, no one is suggesting really anything other than the fact that when the world wants us to vote a certain way, we should consider WHY they want us to vote that way, and see if it's a good idea for us. Not for them.

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ORIGINAL: Zhi

Well, I think understanding that some of them do not love us, or at best are not really out for our best interests, is something you must consider when considering their suggestions regarding our national leadership. The command is, after all, love thy neighbor, not expect thy neighbor to love you.

Does it offend me that they have opinions regarding our potential leadership? No. But I'm going to take those opinions in light of what I know their motivations and personal priorities to be.

I'm not sure what kind of "issue" you think it is. It's a point of discussion. It's no more of an "issue" than discussing what kind of car I should buy... my neighbors will have opinions on that too, but I must consider their motivations in those opinions and whether or not they align with my opinions and motivations. For instance, my environmentally savvy (and short) neighbors might suggest a very small, efficient car, not considering that at my height, there's no way my knees would fit into it and my head would scrape the roof. My car afficianado neighbor might suggest something fancy, not considering my budget. So, I must take into account why they are suggesting what they're suggesting, use the portions of their advice that align with my own necessities, and disregarding the portions that are unhelpful.

I consider the motivations of my own mother when she makes suggestions regarding who to vote for. Why on earth would I not consider the motivations of some random stranger in France?

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ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

But we can't vote according to others' perceptions.

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Well whether you think it is an issue or not, it has become an issue for some voters.

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And it is an issue for some posters in this forum. It has become such as issue, that even McCain has made an ad about it. In the end, the world is better off when there is peace and goodwill than discord and war. That takes cooperation between neighbors and a general feeling of trust. Right now, not too many people trust this country. I'm not satisfied with it staying that way. In many eyes, we've become what we used to fear Russia for. Whether you feel those feelings are justified or not. Those perceptions are still out there.

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Why is it scary? Foreign policy is an important part of a president's job and being the largest economic and military power on the planet, what we do has ramifications for a lot of people.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
First off what I really question is your logic - you obviously think our past involment is 'scary', and so that fact doesn't make others involvement in our elections 'not scary' - in fact, for the sake of logic, you should be concerned about both.

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And if one's viewpoint is self-interested, as countries policies are by neccesity, then attempts by outsiders to dictate internal politics are always unwelcome - though not wholly unwarranted (though generally one would hope one's allies aren't doing this). Obviously war is the ultimate means by which countries dictate the course of anothers politics, and there are often good reasons to go to war. In fact a good case might be made that an aided coup is better than a war, as far fewer people die.

But I think in terms our past involvement with other countries internal politics, context is important - much of that involvement you speak about occurred in the course of a cold war where the Soviets were already actively involved in either overthrowing or strongly influencing the course of other countries - and it would have been negligent for our government to do nothing to address this.

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Compared to what? The current human rights loving regime? At least we had some influence over the Shah.

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My overall point is that we've got a history of being somewhat selfish and short-sighted (and in many cases, downright incompetent) in our foreign affairs. Some of our actions had good intentions and were justified; others not so much. Our mistakes have had disastrous, long-lasting consequences affecting the lives of millions of people. It should come as no surprise to anyone that 1) foreigners would be concerned about who we elect or that 2) they would prefer someone with an attitude leaning towards international cooperation and away from hawkishness.

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ORIGINAL: wing2000

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My overall point is that we've got a history of being somewhat selfish and short-sighted (and in many cases, downright incompetent) in our foreign affairs. Some of our actions had good intentions and were justified; others not so much. Our mistakes have had disastrous, long-lasting consequences affecting the lives of millions of people. It should come as no surprise to anyone that 1) foreigners would be concerned about who we elect or that 2) they would prefer someone with an attitude leaning towards international cooperation and away from hawkishness.

Well said.

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ORIGINAL: lightshineon

When has there ever been a poll that has cared who the world wants for president? I find this a tad disturbing, ok flat out scary. Your thoughts on this?