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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 3:35:06 PM
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lexie
Posts: 3056
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From: Toronto
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quote:
We were approved for more mortgage than we chose to use. We knew our budget. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people.
We watch a Canadian show that helps first time home buyers find somewhere to live. There are so many people who are approved for X amount and are looking for a house that is X amount. We wish they would do a "where are they now" show so we can see just how many people were able to keep the homes (especially the ones who want a fixer-upper since everyone and their mom seems to want to flip homes these days.)
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 4:14:48 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5993
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The rest of the world's economies would not have stood a chance if the bailout hadn't happened.
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 4:18:27 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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True, Manda. But it goes against the principles of a lot of Capitalists, myself included.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 4:21:44 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5993
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From: Hampshire, UK
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Other world economies failing would affect America too, so the taxpayer would end up paying in the long run anyway, surely?
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 4:51:10 PM
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myka
Posts: 797
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If we were to let the financial institutions fail, it would have caused some big problems in America to begin with... Many of our businesses are reliant on their ability to get credit in order to stay in business. I'm thinking that this is just putting off the inevitable, and eventually people will have to pay their bills....
Since we live in such a global economy, it would have had serious consequences for most of the developed/developing world; I think it still will, just not right now...
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 4:56:23 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5098
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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Oh yes, definitely a necessary evil, especially if I want DH to have a job, but it's definitely still against my principles. I do believe the private sector could have bailed things out though.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 5:15:39 PM
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laughinggirl
Posts: 320
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From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spitzu
And I'm also thankful to live in a house that is still appreciating (cause the market was never really inflated here) and that I can afford. We were approved for more mortgage than we chose to use. We knew our budget. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people.
All of this is true for us, too.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 5:27:59 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1112
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
One of the politicians was saying that every American thought that the housing prices would only go up. Um... Not Me.
Myka, thanks so much for that. For several years now -- maybe 4-5 years, my DH has been telling people things aren't going to hold. I clearly remember having conversations with my FIL and our now BIL (married to DH's sister) and forcryingoutloud we would leave there at night just shaking our heads "They don't get it. They just don't get it."
Everything ALWAYS gets better, right?
Except when it doesn't.
And I want to seriously [won't say it here, but it rhymes with sunch] the politician who said that. "Every American".
Ooooh, that just makes me so mad. Guess what, Mr. Politician (my money's on it was a man that said that)...some of us "Joe Six-packs" (thanks, Sarah Palin, for that lovely label) are actually -- drumroll -- SMARTER THAN YOU.
I just want to faint now. I might have to recline for a bit. 
In my house.
That we can afford.
That we bought on the LOW END of what we qualified for.
That is smaller than almost all of our peers' houses.
But we can make the payments on one income.
Which we knew when we bought here.
Which we thought maybe someday I wouldn't be working.
And actually now I'm not working.
So now we can STILL afford our house because we were
VERY SMART!
I understand that some people were tricked, some people were not capable of understanding things, but SHAME ON THOSE PEOPLE WHO KNEW THEY WERE IN OVER THEIR HEADS AND JUST WENT ALL OUT AT THE GREED BUFFET.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 5:39:48 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1112
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Other world economies failing would affect America too, so the taxpayer would end up paying in the long run anyway, surely?
Nobody wants to see everybody fail. It's just such a huge burden we carry, Manda. It just REALLY feels like a huge burden. I mean, I really do feel a lot of the world would not only stick a knife in our back but twist it and make us suffer -- we are pretty hated (and some of that we deserve).
But here we've got a lot of people globally riding on us, and so if we don't bear it (American taxpayers -- of which I am one and have been for years, and I start another consulting project next week)...well, it's just a lot to bear.
I mean, we have children now. And we have elderly parents now. How far is my money supposed to stretch (what's left after they take our taxes, social security, 401K [retirement; we're in our 40's; we HAVE TO think about this], health insurance....) I mean, by the time everybody comes and grabs their portion of our paychecks (that's paycheques to you Canaudians, right?) what is left for us to live on?
And nevermind that we're shipping jobs off to India, Poland and the Philippines by the boatload. In the hundreds of thousands of jobs a month.
Oh, but that last time that was brought up here it was mentioned the U.S. is going to prosper as a "services" nation. I mean, how many of us do we need to be nurses and haircutters? Really????? What about people like my husband whose company keeps shipping jobs off to India and Poland? What if my DH's job is next? I guess he has to learn how to cut hair... 
This makes me do this --> *$*@&$^&@*$&*#(%(@*)#(@*$^@&*%#*%)(*#$( 
Jeanie
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 6:43:05 PM
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TwinCityGirl
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Oh, Donna -- my DH would so totally RENT if he were single*. He would LOVE to sell our house and just rent. Rent and let someone else do all the lawn care. Rent and let someone else fix the widgets.
The summer we were newlyweds and were looking at houses to buy was a crazy summer here in the real estate market. People were WILLINGLY paying $20-30-40,000 over the asking price** just to get the house. We were so unwilling to do that that we said "We'd rather stay renting than pay more for a house than it's worth. Just to have a house."
God was good, though, and my friends lived next door to some people from church (we all went to church together) and the house next to my friends' house never went on the market. It actually was only on the market when it was first built in 1923. We are the third owners of an 85-year-old house. There is something really cool about that.
But I think a lot of homebuyers don't factor things in like all the time you have to spend on yardwork. And if you don't spend that time on your yard, you have an overgrown yard and your neighbors will be bummin'...and buying things like extension ladders to get on the roof, lawnmowers, grass seed, shrubs, pruners, trimmers, edgers, garage stuff, lawn and leaf bags, rakes, shovels. I think a lot of people who got to declare their income (beyond what Rachel was even talking about stretching themselves to the maximum) -- declaring an income that wasn't real so they could get in a mac daddy of a house --- ummmm, how are you going to pay for that over time? It's not like you just supersized your fry order at McDonald's -- you just supersized your mortgage payment! 
Seems to me if someone is stretching it paying $1,000/month in rent + utilities that they simply cannot afford a $1,500/month mortgage + utilities + insurance + property taxes. I guess I don't see homeowning as some big gold trophy that a lot of people see it as. Yeah, it is really nice not having to live in an apartment with a baby (because I would be the mom terrified my kid would cry at night and wake all the neighbors and have them crabby at me), but I think EVERYONE who is able to make their rent/mortgage payment should be proud of what they are accomplishing doing that. It's just not that big golden prize to own a home.
And now look at the situation. Months ago (before our TV broke and we decided not to replace it for a while) we saw on the evening news a couple -- maybe about 30 years old -- who lived in California somewhere. They had stretched themselves to buy a $370,000-something house and had lived in it for 2 years. Their goal was to live in it, the value would go up (like Myka said -- "everybody" believed it would go up), sell, and have a big chunk of profit to go buy another. People looked at that as a way to make some good money FAST. (Doesn't that sound like an accident waiting to happen?)
Anyhow, this couple's town had tanked in real estate and guess what? Their house is now worth about $175,000 -- and they realize they will NEVER be able to pay it off so they are just going to walk away from it. They said they didn't care what that did to their credit in the shorter-term, they're walking away because it is ridiculous to pay $370K for a house that's worth $175K.
So you've got those oddballs out there who, when there's no money being made, are just going to abandon ship! Again, it was all pinned on "The market ALWAYS goes up." Well, maybe so -- OVER TIME -- MAYBE -- but when people are looking to be in a house for 2 years and sell it to make 80-grand in profit -- ummmm, those are some risky gambles in those 2 short years.
I really don't understand why people didn't see this coming, and why so many people are "surprised" by this?
Jeanie
* I should say he'd be happy to sell and rent if I gave him the go-ahead, and before some of you gasp at my lack of submission -- he can move us at any time. He can be the captain of that ship, though, as in -- find us a new place. If he says "We're moving", of course I will move. (But honestly, it's cheaper for us to stay here -- rent is outrageous now so we actually pay less and have more space so I don't see us moving unless we find another house to move to and buy.)
** I often wonder about those people who overpaid for their house and how's that working out for them now?
*** Lexie, you should probably just print this post and then head to a Tim Horton's to read it thoroughly and ponder it. 
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 7:32:02 PM
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myka
Posts: 797
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quote:
And I want to seriously [won't say it here, but it rhymes with sunch] the politician who said that. "Every American".
Ooooh, that just makes me so mad. Guess what, Mr. Politician (my money's on it was a man that said that)...some of us "Joe Six-packs" (thanks, Sarah Palin, for that lovely label) are actually -- drumroll -- SMARTER THAN YOU.
I think that is why I'm feeling so cynical about this election; between 'not knowing' and the lack of chutzpah in our leaders...
quote:
I clearly remember having conversations with my FIL and our now BIL (married to DH's sister) and forcryingoutloud we would leave there at night just shaking our heads "They don't get it. They just don't get it."
Yeah, we did the same thing... We are just hoping that those people didn't get in over their heads... Of course, when our wonderful leaders tell us to go buy houses -- the American dream and so forth, who would question them... 
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 7:34:37 PM
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nicole6598
Posts: 4102
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Australia
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Here in Australia we have a pretty good economny but the American crisis was starting to affect us, especially all of our super funds. Our interests have now gone down a bit which is sooooo awesome!!
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 7:53:15 PM
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spitzu
Posts: 1064
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TwinCityGirl
(But honestly, it's cheaper for us to stay here -- rent is outrageous now so we actually pay less and have more space so I don't see us moving unless we find another house to move to and buy.)
Yeah, rent is kind of crazy here these days too. We're definitely better off "owning" than renting a comparable place to live.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 7:58:32 PM
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nicole6598
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From: Australia
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Rent is chaotic here too. They even have rent type auctions now, and some real estate agents are even taking money on the side from people to try and get them a house before others... not right.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/7/2008 8:42:03 PM
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SweetLittleErin
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Working in the industry I do I see alot of homebuyers. When we bought our home, we carefully budgeted and chose a home price within our budget. But I have seen loans go out to people who there is no way they can afford it, however they were "approved." Also, their credit would be so bad they couldnt get homeowners insurance (yes, its greatly based upon credit in MOST cases). There were 18 year old "live in boyfriend/girlfriend" buying a $150,00 home (the averages prices here are about $70,000). And yes, they ended up being foreclosed on. When you end up not being able to close the deal because your insurance came back $10+ a month, you have budgeted too tightly. Everyone is acting all shocked about it, but me and my boss have been predicting it and discussing it for years.
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Mommy to Isaac, born 7/29, 12 weeks early,
Mommy's Little Miracle Man
A Glimpse Of Pink (My Blog)
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/8/2008 9:14:38 AM
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pumpkin
Posts: 1439
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we have known more than 1 person/couple who have advised us that we needed to get out of our apartment (1600+ sq. ft for less than $900/month) to get a house. They keep telling us that we could get a house for what we are paying in rent. Um... maybe 5-10 years ago when they bought their house that was true, but in the last 2-3 years, it's nearly impossible to get comparable space for comparable $$. So, we have stayed... biding our time, searching for that which we liked, had enough space, and was within our price range. I know that we could be approved for more than I think we can afford. We know what we can afford... and silly us, we don't want to obligate ourselves for more.
Plus... some of our friends have told us "well, we bought a house now before we couldn't afford to... you know, prices are just going to keep going up!" Yeah, right. House prices have never ever gone down before, right? Everything was over-inflated in terms of housing prices. I mean, why would I want to pay more for less space? We are getting a very good deal here, but still... it's crazy. People are stunned that prices would go down. I don't see why. Are people really that... nieve?
Now prices are going down, and we still aren't 100% sure that we want to buy a house just yet. People are still lecturing us on "you should move!!" Yeah... well... if you want to pay for all those things that we don't want to pay for... sure, we'll move! =)
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/8/2008 9:43:35 AM
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lexie
Posts: 3056
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:
that's paycheques to you Canaudians, right?)
That's right, and I'm glad to see you got the u in the right place Jeanie. I wasn't sure how many more times I was going to have to correct you on that one!
quote:
*** Lexie, you should probably just print this post and then head to a Tim Horton's to read it thoroughly and ponder it.
Or I could go to a Tim Horton's that has Wi-fi and not waste the paper.
Now that I've stopped laughing at Jeanie making fun of me...
I never understood the need to own a house right away. If you can afford it then great, but why burden yourself if you can't? My BIL was renting in the city where he worked. He had two young kids at the time and the wife was a SAHM. Then they wanted a house but the only house they could afford was 45 minutes outside of the city. So they bought it of course, with an extremely low downpayment (because here, you can buy a house with no downpayment.)
But all of a sudden, he's driving an hour and a half each way to go to work (because of traffic), putting who knows how much money into their cars, and they're paying all these extras they didn't expect. Soon gas prices start going up, insurance is going up big time because he had a fatal car accident, property taxes are going up, they have two more kids. The wife now has to go get a full time job just so they can stay afloat (and even then they couldn't for a while) and the kids are left to fend for themselves.
There is such a bigger picture than I think many of us realize. Even Dh and I went through it before we got married we were going to buy a house. We figured with us both working the two jobs we were at full time we could make all the payments. But we wouldn't be saving any money and we certainly wouldn't be able to have any kids. So we thought long and hard, we both went back to school and now we are renting while we get everything in order to buy a home.
Yet, our inlaws who got into the trouble I mentioned above keep saying, "why don't you buy a house? They're building houses out here all the time." I told them no, we don't want to live that far away from the city, and we're not buying until we're sure we can make mortgage payments AND save money all in one month.
We currently rent in the city and it's ridiculous. We pay $1000 for a two bedroom apartment (that includes underground parking and utilities) and we live in a low income neighbourhood that is identified as at risk.
Dh laughs at me now because I'm getting excited about the way the housing market is going. We keep an eye on the house listings in the town we want to move to, and in our price range. We are slowly seeing really nice houses creeping into our price range. We figure by the time we are ready to buy a house, we'll be in a great situation given the way the housing market is going. So Dh now laughs at me and tells me "I shouldn't get excited over other people's misfortunes." Which is true. But given the way things are going, things are only getting better for us and I'm glad that we were patient.
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I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/8/2008 10:23:09 AM
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isaacsmom
Posts: 1983
Joined: 12/2/2005
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We have owned a house since we were first married. But thankfully hubby and I were both raised to be financially responsible and it has benefitted us well. We've never been hasty and always prayed for direction. We bought our first beautiful little house for $37,000 in Missouri. Our payments were $315/month. Ahhh, those were the days!!  It was a sweet little house that we bought from an elderly woman, who had totally remodeled it. We could not have rented a home for that amount.
We sold it a year later at a profit, which enabled us to pay for our moving expenses to move out of state and buy another little house in Oklahoma City, for $46,000. Again, it was another cute little house and our payments were barely $400/mo. Much cheaper than rent.
We lived in that house a while and decided to buy a bigger house and fix it up, because the market was good and we wanted a bigger house for our children when we finished school. God provided the most awesome house (there is a picture of it on my Facebook). It was a HUD foreclosure in a great neighborhood, twice the size of our current home, was $75,000 and needed lots of cosmetic work. We bought it for that price (still $15,000 below market value) and worked on it over the next 4 years. It was a gorgeous house by the time we left it, and we sold it for $104,000. That provided us the means to move where God wanted us next (here!) and buy and work on a little house on a farm, just what we had prayed for!!!!!
We bought our current little house for $58,000 and were able to put a new roof, windows, new wiring, clean up the land, build a fence, refinish the floors, new appliances, etc. etc. etc. with our profit from the last house.
Now the market is not good, but we own a home, have extremely low house payments and a nice little piece of land where we plan to stay for a while and we are thankful to the Lord for directing us in the way that he has. Our house is MUCH tinier than the one we left, but I'm thankful because we've learned that it's not that important to have a big house, and we can live comfortably with 2 kids in a 2 bedroom house. Also, getting rid of the bunch of stuff that wouldn't fit in the house has definitely been freeing. We don't live prestigiously, but we live happily and peacefully.
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<<< My littlest punkin'
*~*~*Rachel*~*~*
pirtlefarm.blogspot.com
Beware of posing as a profound person -- God became a baby. ~Oswald Chambers
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/8/2008 10:26:42 AM
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lexie
Posts: 3056
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:
We bought our first beautiful little house for $37,000 in Missouri. Our payments were $315/month.
My mouth dropped at that! I thought, Gee Rachel, are you like 60 years old or something? When my parents bought their first home, on the outskirts of the city, they bought it for that amount. That was 36 years ago!
I don't know where in this country you would find a house for those prices. But cost of living is different here and higher.
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I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/8/2008 11:18:45 AM
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SweetLittleErin
Posts: 3328
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$37,000 would buy you a decent, not great, house in this area. Our 3 bedroom, 2 bath, brick house, on 1/4 of an acre costs us somewhere around $70,000. $100,000 will buy you a brand new, brick house, in a sub-division. $200,000 will buy you a VERY nice house. The "mansion" quality houses (thats a relative term) in this area would run you around $500,000 or so. So....any one want to come live near me! It'd be great fun!
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~Erin~
Mommy to Isaac, born 7/29, 12 weeks early,
Mommy's Little Miracle Man
A Glimpse Of Pink (My Blog)
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/8/2008 11:23:14 AM
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isaacsmom
Posts: 1983
Joined: 12/2/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
quote:
We bought our first beautiful little house for $37,000 in Missouri. Our payments were $315/month.
My mouth dropped at that! I thought, Gee Rachel, are you like 60 years old or something? When my parents bought their first home, on the outskirts of the city, they bought it for that amount. That was 36 years ago!
I don't know where in this country you would find a house for those prices. But cost of living is different here and higher.
It was 10 years ago, in a tiny town in a rural area south of St. Louis, MO. Actually, the house is now on the market again for $64,000! I found it on realtor.com. The price has nearly doubled in 10 years.
_____________________________
<<< My littlest punkin'
*~*~*Rachel*~*~*
pirtlefarm.blogspot.com
Beware of posing as a profound person -- God became a baby. ~Oswald Chambers
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RE: Kicka - #4 - 10/8/2008 11:27:51 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6911
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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My dad is actually looking at capitalizing on this. He has always been very frugal with his money, so he is rather well set up financially now that he is retired.
We live in an area where even the smallest of homes can run $300,000 or so. Several of the homes have been foreclosed on. The average two bedroom rents for about $11000/mo. He bought a three bedroom, 2 bath home for $2700 and is renting it out for $500/mo.
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