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why mary and joseph - 9/19/2008 10:23:03 PM
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chrisovery
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god chose joseph as the husband and mary as the mother of our lord and saviour. what attributes did they have that god found worthy in them. there is not a whole lot written about mary and joseph. but there is enough to get the idea of why god chose these 2 specific beings to raise the lord.
please give scripture to show clearly what is being stated.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/19/2008 11:44:13 PM
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LCannon
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Luke 1:28-"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God." Why her favor? She was a OT Jew, devote in her faith/obedience...Joseph likewise, a OT Jew,a man of integrity and character...Matthew 1:20-"But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife..."
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/19/2008 11:46:20 PM
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OneJohn410
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery
god chose joseph as the husband and mary as the mother of our lord and saviour. what attributes did they have that god found worthy in them. there is not a whole lot written about mary and joseph. but there is enough to get the idea of why god chose these 2 specific beings to raise the lord.
please give scripture to show clearly what is being stated.
I understand what you are asking, and just want to beat someone else to the comment, for reasons I guess so that someone could do the same for me without any jest or reprimand. Please edit your OP. Something like 'God chose Mary to be the mother of our Lord and Savior, Jesus, and chose Joseph also to help raise him through his childhood.' It will just help people follow you better.
I agree with the first reply, and that it was God's own design that we don't know all- 'we' ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God then ensured that the tree of life be out of reach by evicting us from Eden.
OneJohn410
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 1:44:44 AM
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chrisovery
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well these are great answers and truthful aswell. god raised mary and joseph up to be the parents that they needed to be for our lord and savior? the real question shoud have been more along the lines of according to what the bible tells us about mary and joseph what characteristics did he raise them up with?
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 8:03:20 AM
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SonInMe1
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Neither earned this responsibility and blessing. It came from God, in His Plan and by His mercy. God knew who to ask who would obey. The bible does not say God went around asking every Tom Dick and Thelma to do this for Him. He asked one woman who was betrothed ( engaged ) to a man who would accept this rather unusual circumstance.
God chose them because He is God and knows everything about us including what we have done...what we are doing...and what we will do.
God chose them because He knew it was the right choice. It wasn't a guess.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 8:46:54 AM
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chrisovery
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soninme1 i have no idea how you came up with an answer that is by no means what anyone has stated. no even made a reply that goes along with your answer.
let us take a look at some things that were being done to people in the old testament. first of all women that committed adultery were stoned to death or disconnected from the rest of the people. they would have had nothing to do with them if they were not stoned. when joseph was married to mary he was not to touch her for a year according to the law. mary went to visit elizabeth for a while and when she came back she was with child. joseph found out then. through what i am sure was hurt, anger, disapointment in the wife that he had chosen in his belief that she was a pure and virtuous woman.
joseph could have easily accused and brought a trial that would have found her guilty and gotten her stoned to death. but he chose not to. he rather wanted to let her go in quiet not making trouble for her and definitely not bringing her to death. this is the mercy that joseph showed before the angel came to him in his dream. jesus stated he would have mercy than sacrifice. this is what was displayed by joseph.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 9:15:29 AM
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chrisovery
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deermousie, this may come as a shock to you but mary was not of the line of david. if you study the geneology in the new and the old testament you will find this to be fact. yes this is a fact. however god shows us great attributes of who he is through both mary and joseph. he raised them up with specific characteristics as to what makes a godly person.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 9:28:01 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
They were in the lineage of David
They were willing
She was a virgin
That wraps it up very nicely; qualified and willing.
Thanks
RC
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 1:12:35 PM
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chrisovery
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alright i think we got the physical facts that the whole world can see. but any one that god has chosen for anything throughout the word of god holds specific characteristics. it is these characteristics that are given to us through christ when we are saved. these are also characteristics that we grow in or should want to grow in. they also show us things that maybe we need to repent of. however i find mind bogling that many people claiming to be christian do not look to these characteristics as these are the characteristics that the lord uses in us to get him across to others in hopes of salvation.
amazing how much we can get from the characters in the bible if we are willing to truly study it out.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 2:31:03 PM
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LCannon
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quote:
...this may come as a shock to you but Mary was not of the line of David.
'...son of Melea, son of Menna, son of Mattatha, son of Nathan, son of David,.."(Luke 3:31)(the maternal lineage) "...Matthew traces the line of Christ through David's son, Solomon(Matthew 1:6, the paternal line). That is the royal line. Luke traces the line of Christ through David's son, Nathan. Mary had the blood of David in her veins. Jesus Christ is the Son of David. Luke reveals Jesus Christ as the Son of Man and the Savior of the world. His line does not stop with Abraham, but goes all the way back to Adam who was the first "son" of God—the created son of God. But he fell from that lofty position when he sinned. Jesus Christ, the last Adam and the Son of God, is come to bring mankind back into that relationship with God which Adam formerly had and lost. This relationship is accomplished through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ."-JV McGee(Thru the Bible)
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"I pray that You dispose of my health, my sickness,
my life and my death for Your Glory."(Blaise Pascal)
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 3:01:11 PM
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chrisovery
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i will restudy this and get back to you. but i am pretty sure that joseph is the one out of davids line. but i could be mistaken so i will restudy it as i stated.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 3:36:20 PM
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pinkbow
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I found some information on the Character of Joseph and these scriptures sound to me like God chose him because of his faith and willingness to accept and obey God's commandments.Letters in bold are my doing.
Matthew 1:18
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 1:19
Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
Matthew 1:20
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 1:24
When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife.
OK, now I will place some information from the Bible that indicates Mary's powerful faith and willingness to Obey God as well.
Luke 1:28
The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
Luke 1:29-30
Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
After receiving the news from the Angel, she took a step in faith, and believed him. (Kinda reminds me of Abraham, eh?)
And then she said
Luke 1:38
"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.
I personally believe that these two were chosen by God because of their faith and willingness to obey Him. I don't think that's the only reason, but the Scriptures make the above clear. :)
< Message edited by pinkbow -- 9/20/2008 3:44:28 PM >
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 4:55:21 PM
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chrisovery
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pinkbow, thank you. yes you are right. these are the same characteristic that we should want. that we should ask the lord in our faith to give us. thank you this is definitely a great post and the most looked at study on this thread.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/20/2008 10:21:59 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
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If Israel had still had Kings in Joseph's day, he would have been in line to be the King of Israel. Talk about God planning exactly who Christ would be, not only as Messiah, or Saviour, but King of Israel as well. Humanly speaking HE would have been the rightful heir to the throne!!!!!
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/21/2008 12:03:31 AM
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SonInMe1
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Jewish geneologies go through the male.
I don't recall if Mary was of David's line but I don't think,as far as jewish culkture goes, it would have mattered.
Jesus was no more of Mary's blood than of Joseph's. I do not believe genetically they were the same.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/21/2008 1:59:36 PM
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rabstark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Jewish geneologies go through the male.
I don't recall if Mary was of David's line but I don't think,as far as jewish culkture goes, it would have mattered.
Jesus was no more of Mary's blood than of Joseph's. I do not believe genetically they were the same.
The genealogy in Luke doesn't technically trace through Mary, it traces through her father, who would have been Eli (Joseph's father was named Jacob). Luke is establishing Jesus' human lineage. It's also possible that he's also establishing a legal connection to Nathan ben David's branch of the Davidic line, since the only mention of siblings for Mary is (possibly) one sister. If Mary was an only child or was one of a family of daughters, under the Mosaic Law, the first born son of the first daughter to have a boy would become his grandfather's legal heir.
< Message edited by rabstark -- 9/21/2008 5:15:02 PM >
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/21/2008 2:46:42 PM
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SonInMe1
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Luke 3:23
Now Jesus Himself was about 30 yrs old when he began His ministry. He was the son, so it was thought of Joseph, the son of Heli
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/21/2008 5:14:38 PM
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rabstark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Luke 3:23
Now Jesus Himself was about 30 yrs old when he began His ministry. He was the son, so it was thought of Joseph, the son of Eli
All depends where you put the commas. There are no commas in Greek. The structure of the Greek suggests that the entire phrase "as supposed the son of Joseph" is parenthetical. It's an explanation of the common belief about Jesus' parentage, it isn't connected to the following genealogy. If, as it seems, Mary was either an only child or one of a family of daughters, Jesus would have been the heir to Eli, therefor he was legally his "son" (although the word "son" isn't in the text, it's assumed).
If this isn't Mary's genealogy, then there's a major problem, because this genealogy and Matthews have NO common ancestors from David on except for one point when they intersect with Zerubabbel. If these are both supposed to be Joseph than either Matthew or Luke is presenting an incorrect genealogy, and in the case of Luke, presenting one that has Joseph coming from a non-Solomonic branch of David's family, which disqualifies him, and by extension Jesus (Joseph's presumptive heir) from having a claim on Israel's throne.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/21/2008 8:28:59 PM
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chrisovery
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the genealogies have nothing to do with the characteristics of mary or joseph. yes we all know that god promised through the line of david that he would bring forth jesus christ. but he raised up joseph and mary to have the characteristics to carry this duty out. so far we have mercy, purity, obedience to god and their love for him. what other characteristics did the lord raise them up with that they were ready for this highly honored task?
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/21/2008 9:10:51 PM
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armydude
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What was so special about Mary and Joseph? I don't know. God does. And He's not trying to make us like Mary or Joseph. He wants us to be like Jesus according to Philippians 2:5. So they were good, and they were obedient. But even they would like the spotlight off of them and on Jesus where it belongs.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/22/2008 7:30:58 AM
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DaveW
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May I suggest that Yosef's (Joseph) name may have been important?
In the Jewish folklore of the first century (a part that was suppressed by later generations of Jewish authors) there were many competing theories of the coming of messiah. Several actually had 2 messiahs, Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiach ben David. (Messiah Son of Joseph and Messiah Son of David) The "son of Joseph" was the suffering servant of Isa 53 who prepares the way for the Son of David, suppressed in the 2nd century to try to prevent Jewish evangelism. A few of these traditions had both messiahs being the same person.
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RE: why mary and joseph - 9/22/2008 7:38:58 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabstark
If this isn't Mary's genealogy, then there's a major problem, because this genealogy and Matthews have NO common ancestors from David on except for one point when they intersect with Zerubabbel. If these are both supposed to be Joseph than either Matthew or Luke is presenting an incorrect genealogy, and in the case of Luke, presenting one that has Joseph coming from a non-Solomonic branch of David's family, which disqualifies him, and by extension Jesus (Joseph's presumptive heir) from having a claim on Israel's throne. First off, you are trying to understand something from your current mindset. Jesus' claim to the throne of David could ONLY come thru Joseph, not Mary by any stretch. The fact that Joseph was not His biological father is actually inconsequential.
Another thing to factor in is that in that day your legal lineage and your actual lineage were often different. Alexander the Great altered his legal lineage to tie into the royal family of Israel (making himself a son of David) even though he had no actual Jewish ancestors. I would suggest that Matthew lists the legal lineage and Luke gives us the actual one.
What we do know about Mary is that she was a close relative of Elizabeth who was called a daughter of Aaron, making her of tribe Levi. So it is likely she was also of Levi.
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