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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/1/2008 4:50:14 AM
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wintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Well...... unless there is an actual divine act getting Barr elected, one of those two is right................................................ But then again, I'm not keeping score.
Adam
Not at all...for...Who says God wants to tell ANYbody who will win an election? To do so would kill the very important part where the voters must ACT and actually vote in the election. There is no need to vote if the outcome is already divinely decided and announced and chiseled in stone.
BOTH are WRONG.
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/1/2008 8:12:57 AM
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earthless
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Both are wrong because both are documented false prophets and false teachers to boot.
But some cannot admit that because it shatters their beliefs - even choosing said beliefs over the very Word of God. Amazing. Paying more reverence to fallen men who have shown are not deserving of a self-professing Christian's attention than to Scripture.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/1/2008 11:43:54 AM
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wintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Both are wrong because both are documented false prophets and false teachers to boot.
Yeah, that too! They were wrong out the starting gate and had no chance to be right...because they live in a state of wrongness. Ha! When you think of that, attempting something where there's about a fifty-percent odds is a real reach at some kind of legitimacy.
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/1/2008 12:42:23 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Both are wrong because both are documented false prophets and false teachers to boot.
Yeah, that too! They were wrong out the starting gate and had no chance to be right...because they live in a state of wrongness. Ha! When you think of that, attempting something where there's about a fifty-percent odds is a real reach at some kind of legitimacy.
You guys pretty well explain why we shouldn't
pay any attention to these false teachers at all.
The only time my tv lands on TBN is that second
between channels surfing.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/1/2008 1:13:48 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
The only time my tv lands on TBN is that second
between channels surfing.
For me, it's when I misread "TBN" and think it says "TBS" and I'm like . . . "Sweet. Maybe Steve Urkel is on!"
And, oh, how sorely I am disappointed.
< Message edited by 1love1God1way -- 10/1/2008 2:30:15 PM >
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/1/2008 2:10:39 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
The only time my tv lands on TBN is that second
between channels surfing.
For me, it's when I misread "TBN" and this it says "TBS" and I'm like . . . "Sweet. Maybe Steve Urkel is on!"
And, oh, how sorely I am disappointed.
LOL, you and me both.
Gotta' like that Urkel.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/1/2008 7:51:22 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 439
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
The only time my tv lands on TBN is that second
between channels surfing.
For me, it's when I misread "TBN" and this it says "TBS" and I'm like . . . "Sweet. Maybe Steve Urkel is on!"
And, oh, how sorely I am disappointed.
LOL, you and me both.
Gotta' like that Urkel.
Urkel was good until his voice changed. Then he was just sad.
_____________________________
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 2:58:55 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
Not at all...for...Who says God wants to tell ANYbody who will win an election? To do so would kill the very important part where the voters must ACT and actually vote in the election. There is no need to vote if the outcome is already divinely decided and announced and chiseled in stone.
BOTH are WRONG. Wintery, before getting hot under the collar, by process of elimination I can tell you with 100% confidence that either John McCain or Barack Obama are going to win the Presidential election. It doesn't take any kind of divine inspiration to deliver that message. Since one has said that John McCain is going to win and the other has said that Barack Obama is going to win, one is going to be correct in their prediction. That is why my above response was supposed to elicit a comedic reaction in the reader.
Now, we can also attack the notion of "Who says God wants to tell anybody who will win an election..." if you like, but I'm not really that interested in digging into it here.quote:
Both are wrong because both are documented false prophets and false teachers to boot. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...quote:
But some cannot admit that because it shatters their beliefs - even choosing said beliefs over the very Word of God. Amazing. Paying more reverence to fallen men who have shown are not deserving of a self-professing Christian's attention than to Scripture. Hmm...... I wonder who we are talking about here...
I've seen guys carry around a chip on their shoulder, but you seem to have the whole tree, sir...quote:
Yeah, that too! They were wrong out the starting gate and had no chance to be right...because they live in a state of wrongness. Ha! When you think of that, attempting something where there's about a fifty-percent odds is a real reach at some kind of legitimacy. If both are necessarily wrong, I shall be very interested to see the rise of this nebulous third-party candidate who is going to so sweep the electorate off their feet in five weeks to actually win the Presidential office. However, I could say that if your implication prove inaccurate (ie, Obama or McCain do win office) that you are in fact a false prophet. Aren't we glad I'm nicer than that?quote:
For me, it's when I misread "TBN" and think it says "TBS" and I'm like . . . "Sweet. Maybe Steve Urkel is on!"
And, oh, how sorely I am disappointed.
Amen... Every time I see a television broadcast, I remember precisely why I stopped watching television.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 3:13:49 AM
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wintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Wintery, before getting hot under the collar,
Ha ha...I knew I should have used "bold" instead of "caps" on that...no heat here, sorry for the misunderstanding.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Now, we can also attack the notion of "Who says God wants to tell anybody who will win an election..." if you like, but I'm not really that interested in digging into it here.
Well, that's the whole ball game...a frivolous giddiness about knowing the future and not having the understanding that throwing out stuff is not prophesying is what gets people in a big mess.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
Yeah, that too! They were wrong out the starting gate and had no chance to be right...because they live in a state of wrongness. Ha! When you think of that, attempting something where there's about a fifty-percent odds is a real reach at some kind of legitimacy. If both are necessarily wrong, I shall be very interested to see the rise of this nebulous third-party candidate who is going to so sweep the electorate off their feet in five weeks to actually win the Presidential office. However, I could say that if your implication prove inaccurate (ie, Obama or McCain do win office) that you are in fact a false prophet. Aren't we glad I'm nicer than that?
Context, FurGodWurLivin--they are wrong in believing in the prophecies of their imaginations, so their 50/50 guesses are meaningless.
Moi, a false prophet? I've had worse said, and yes you are nicer than that.
< Message edited by wintery -- 10/2/2008 4:06:58 AM >
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 9:13:44 AM
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earthless
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Adam - why can't you, correctly, call something for what it is? Better said, you have no problem doing it on a personal level (which is good), but as a Christian why can't you do it for what is biblical and truthful.
Both are false prophets, regardless of how much sugar you want to put on the topic.
We all need to 'man up' and stand for what is true. And trying to be coy or slick with our banter while ignoring our responsibility and common sense truth, is downright wrong, irresponsible and something we will be held accountable for.
Man up, Church.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 10:47:00 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
Adam
But someone that claims the "office" of Prophet needs to be right 100%.
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 12:51:02 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
Adam
But someone that claims the "office" of Prophet needs to be right 100%.
But alas...you may get the standard answer I get from many on that side of the fence: "Well, if man's involved there is gonna be some errors because man is a flawed vessel." Well, guess what? GOD IS NOT! Isn't prophecy what God says? In Him there is no shadow of turning. He's 100% right! I'm pretty sure Isaiah and Jeremiah didn't feel the need to pad their prophecies with stuff they made up just to sell pomegranate anointing oil.
_____________________________
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 6:39:18 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
Well, that's the whole ball game...a frivolous giddiness about knowing the future and not having the understanding that throwing out stuff is not prophesying is what gets people in a big mess. God forbid we have frivolous giddiness... Everyone knows that Happiness is destructive to your inner spirituality. [/end sarcasm]
I have my opinions about both of the subjects of our discussion (namely, Kim Clement and the Elijah List), but I'm going to keep them to myself. God does foretell the future to the Prophets in the Old Testament... so that isn't a biblical issue. The fact is that one of the two above is going to be correct in their assertion because they have picked the only two options.
For example, FoxNews can put out a poll saying that McCain is going to win and CBS can put out a poll saying the Obama is going to win. One of those two is correct, and neither would have prophesied. To that effect, I am not arguing over whether Kim Clement or the Elijah list heard from God or was looking through the wrong end of their telescope. One of the two is going to be correct in their prediction... that is all I said, and that is all I meant.
Oh, and for what it's worth, it isn't really a "frivolous giddiness about knowing the future" that gets people in a mess... it is not having a love of Truth that gets people in doctrinal messes.quote:
Context, FurGodWurLivin--they are wrong in believing in the prophecies of their imaginations, so their 50/50 guesses are meaningless. (A) you have to make a hefty judgement call to say that God has not addressed either of them.
(B) a 50/50 guess is a 50/50 guess. To my recollection, never in the history of the world has a 50/50 guess been a 0/100 reality. On a more personal note, regardless who wins the election God is still in control... I will merely say "so and so had a nice guess..." and move on. I would be willing to bet money that I will be a happier person for it too.quote:
Moi, a false prophet? I've had worse said, and yes you are nicer than that. Believe me, I've been called worse too... hence the nicety surrounding it. It just serves no purpose.
quote:
Adam - why can't you, correctly, call something for what it is? Better said, you have no problem doing it on a personal level (which is good), but as a Christian why can't you do it for what is biblical and truthful. quote:
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5) 'Nuff said. If I "man up", as you phrase it, I am disobeying the Sermon on the Mount. Seeing as how the SOTM is supposed to be Christianity 101, I'm going to put more faith in that than in your attempts to provoke my humanistic pride.quote:
We all need to 'man up' and stand for what is true. And trying to be coy or slick with our banter while ignoring our responsibility and common sense truth, is downright wrong, irresponsible and something we will be held accountable for.
Man up, Church. You know what else we are going to be held responsible for? quote:
My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. Indeed, we put bits in horses' mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. (James 3:1-8) I'm not trying to be coy or slick... I'm merely attempting to bridle my tongue and operate in the call of Jesus. Fair enough?quote:
But someone that claims the "office" of Prophet needs to be right 100%. I will phrase it this way... If someone IS in the Office of a Prophet, they will be correct 100% of the time. Many people can claim anything they like, for their words do not always shape reality.quote:
GOD IS NOT! Isn't prophecy what God says? In Him there is no shadow of turning. He's 100% right! I'm pretty sure Isaiah and Jeremiah didn't feel the need to pad their prophecies with stuff they made up just to sell pomegranate anointing oil. TCM, you are quite correct that God is always 100% correct. You are also quite correct that the essential of prophecy is giving a message from God to the people. However, we also need to consider the fact that God is operating through fallen human vessels. If a Prophet's propensity to fail, and by extension his humanity, is suspended during the time of his prophecy, we have slid a very calivinstic viewpoint where free-will is nonexistant. It is the very gift of choice that is humanity's Achilie's Heel... Always has been and always will be, until the Millenial Kingdom puts and end to the curse of sin within our members.
So yes, God knows the future as it will happen because He knows the exact choice of every voter on November 4th... If we say otherwise, we are sliding into Open Theism.
Yes, people who prophesy are still human and as such, still prone to failure in the midst of their prophecy... if we say otherwise, we are sliding into Determinism (God always gets exactly what God wants... translation, God caused mankind to sin).
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 6:42:51 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
Adam
But someone that claims the "office" of Prophet needs to be right 100%.
But alas...you may get the standard answer I get from many on that side of the fence: "Well, if man's involved there is gonna be some errors because man is a flawed vessel." Well, guess what? GOD IS NOT! Isn't prophecy what God says? In Him there is no shadow of turning. He's 100% right! I'm pretty sure Isaiah and Jeremiah didn't feel the need to pad their prophecies with stuff they made up just to sell pomegranate anointing oil.
I could not have said it better.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 6:50:19 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
You know what else we are going to be held responsible for?
Adam
Your admonition is absolutely useless. Because we are talking about two absolutely certified 100% without a shadow of a doubt False Prophets. By whose standards? Not by mine, nor by a neighbor's, nor by a popular vote, nor by a census, nor by the media - no.
But by the mighty and holy absolute Word of God.
Hold me responsible for standing on His Word and not being worried about political correctness nor about making lame and flimsy excuses for men who make a mockery of God's Holy Word. Charlatans who make merchandise of men and empty tombs that gorge themselves on the gullibility of biblically ignorant individuals.
Man up.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 6:56:45 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
However, we also need to consider the fact that God is operating through fallen human vessels. If a Prophet's propensity to fail, and by extension his humanity, is suspended during the time of his prophecy
Adam
And there it is......
So you, by your own admission and allowances, are not able to fully trust the Bible. Because it was written by God operating through fallen human vessels.
Adam, you see.. that is where you and I differ.
I know, absolutely, that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
I believe that the sixty six books of the Bible are all given by the inspiration of God in the sense that the Holy Spirit guided holy men of old in their choice of the very words of the sacred writings; and that His divine inspiration is not in different degrees, but extends equally and fully to all parts of these writings, historical, poetical, doctrinal, and prophetical, and to the smallest word, provided such word was present in the original manuscripts (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 Corinthians 2:13; Mark 12:26,36; 13:11; Acts 1:16; 2:4).
Such was Prophecy - God spoke literally though the person - so the message, if truly from God, is and was 100% correct and absolute.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 7:12:37 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I know, absolutely, that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
I believe that the sixty six books of the Bible are all given by the inspiration of God in the sense that the Holy Spirit guided holy men of old in their choice of the very words of the sacred writings; and that His divine inspiration is not in different degrees, but extends equally and fully to all parts of these writings, historical, poetical, doctrinal, and prophetical, and to the smallest word, provided such word was present in the original manuscripts (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 Corinthians 2:13; Mark 12:26,36; 13:11; Acts 1:16; 2:4).
Such was Prophecy - God spoke literally though the person - so the message, if truly from God, is and was 100% correct and absolute.
Amen, sir!
_____________________________
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/2/2008 7:22:36 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Such was Prophecy - God spoke literally though the person - so the message, if truly from God, is and was 100% correct and absolute.
To take it further:
I trust that God is 100% true. If a "prophet" (read: broken vessel) prophecies incorrectly once, it casts doubt on whether anything he says is of God or not. But that's just me. Probably some flawed theology there.
_____________________________
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/3/2008 4:10:31 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Earthless, again, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. All I said is that humans have a propensity to fail. That does not mean that I disbelieve the Bible, though you seem hell-bent on proving that I do. To that effect, 90% of your dialogue with me is highly irelevant and pointless. Yes, I believe the Bible is true. Why? Because it is constantly being proven correct. The book of Daniel should be enough to convince anyone of prophecy when it comes from a Prophet.
As someone who believes that the Office of a Prophet (and thereby, those who operated in absolute inspiration) has ceased, you should have no trouble believing that modern day prophecy is less than perfect... there are no prophets anymore, right? Yes, my theology takes into account Human weakness. To do less is naive at best and humanistic at worst.quote:
Your admonition is absolutely useless. Because we are talking about two absolutely certified 100% without a shadow of a doubt False Prophets. By whose standards? Not by mine, nor by a neighbor's, nor by a popular vote, nor by a census, nor by the media - no.
But by the mighty and holy absolute Word of God.
Hold me responsible for standing on His Word and not being worried about political correctness nor about making lame and flimsy excuses for men who make a mockery of God's Holy Word. Charlatans who make merchandise of men and empty tombs that gorge themselves on the gullibility of biblically ignorant individuals.
Man up. Okay, I just gave you two passages of scriptures that are direct commands from Jesus and James, respectively, telling us to not judge one another and to watch what we say... and then you claim you are in Biblically correct standing to do the exact opposite. I think I'm going to follow Jesus words and not really worry about what your opinion of me is...
As for political correctness, I couldn't care less about it. I'm not holding the line on what I believe because it is socially acceptable to do so. Rather, everything in me would love to rip Kim Clement to shreds for what he says God told him. HOWEVER... Unless I want God to scrutinize my doctrine with a microscope on Judgement day, I better have some meekness, humility and grace.
Now for your claim of "man up". What exactly does that mean? Be coldhearted, bitter and venomous? If I show mercy, grace, and love, does that change my chromosomal make up? If it makes me less of a man to have mercy and humility... you are going to have to square with Jesus at some point. Or did Jesus only have mercy and humility when He was walking the earth with His disciples? Jesus is the only valid definition of Manhood (as the only non-fallen man), and what I see with Him is an amazing amount of grace with the unrepentant. In fact, the only time Jesus calls people out is when He is using them as an example, or actually talking to them. That is what forms the foundation of the theology of a merciful God, so we can't just leave it be. In fact, I would say that at this point your claim has stepped well far away from what Jesus was and did. And then you hurl the epithets at me, when you don't even agree with the words you say you believe.
Your own words condemn you in your statement of belief in the Bible, and then refusing to heed Jesus' call in the Sermon on the Mount. So who believes the Bible?
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/3/2008 8:09:38 AM
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earthless
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Adam,
Can you address the direct correlation between your own admission and how that contradicts you from saying you hold the Bible to be true?
If you make allowances for false prophets, how then can you with the other hand claim the Bible is God's Holy Word?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/3/2008 1:03:21 PM
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Child4Jesus
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FurGodWurLivin,
What exactly is you stance? Are we to just sit back and let people me misled? Are we to just sit back and allow people to be led away by false prophets and people teaching another gospel?
What you seem to call having mercy and being humble is not calling a kettle a kettle. It seems you would rather not call people out who are clearly teaching doctrine that is deadly and call that having mercy.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/4/2008 2:50:17 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 979
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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quote:
Adam,
Can you address the direct correlation between your own admission and how that contradicts you from saying you hold the Bible to be true? You mean the contradiction that you made up? Of course.
All prophesy needs to be judged... 1st Corinthians 14 is more than enough evidence of that. How is something judged? By evaluating first it's fruit, and then evaluing it's precision. By both criterion presented, the Bible stands as true. Hence the reference I made to Daniel. In the whole "King of the North and King of the South" saga alone there are over 100 specific prophesies that have been fulfilled. In fact, Daniel's prophesies are so accurate that many liberal scholars have been forced to argue for the indefensible position that Daniel was written after the fact in the second century BC. By refuting that argument with the truth that it was written by Daniel somewhere between 585 and 530 BC, we can say that Daniel's prophesy was incredibly true. Since his prophesies that have already been fulfilled were true, it makes sense to believe that his unfulfilled prophesies will be fulfilled as well.
Extrapolate that same thought process to the rest of the Bible, and you end up proving that the Bible is true. Plus there is such a thing as faith.quote:
If you make allowances for false prophets, how then can you with the other hand claim the Bible is God's Holy Word? Addendum, I make allowances for people with failures because people are unreliable. If I attempt to hold people to a standard of perfection and refuse to have fellowship with them unless they succeed, I am going to spend much time alone and frustrated.
However, all of this is said with a complete ignoring of the scripture presented in my previous response. Why place me on trial again and again?quote:
FurGodWurLivin,
What exactly is you stance? Are we to just sit back and let people me misled? Are we to just sit back and allow people to be led away by false prophets and people teaching another gospel?
What you seem to call having mercy and being humble is not calling a kettle a kettle. It seems you would rather not call people out who are clearly teaching doctrine that is deadly and call that having mercy. Richard, I have a very staunch position on teaching truth. I am all for teaching truth. I also have no problem debating false doctrine. However, it is when our discussions of doctrine stretch into the realm of attempting to destroy specific individuals that we branch into pride. It isn't refusing to "call a kettle a kettle". Rather, it is first avoiding being the pot calling the kettle black, and secondly it is refusing to bend to the natural human reaction of slander, self-justification, and self-righteousness.
If you teach the truth and call out false doctrine, it becomes very clear who is teaching it. In the same vein, I don't have to invoke the name of Tim LaHaye every time I argue with someone over the timing of the rapture. If I go on about how the rapture is after the tribulation and how misleading I think the doctrine of a pre-trib rapture is... It is incredibly clear to anyone with half an ounce of brainpower that I disagree with Tim LaHaye.
Our current tack of slaughtering the Kim Clements, Steve Shultzes and Benny Hinns of the world is what I have come to term "Whack-a-mole Christianity". You can drop the hammer hard on one, but two more will pop up right after them. As Aaron Weiss of the band "mewithoutyou" wrote in a song, "What good is one word when you can throw away the book?" I think our time would be much better spent praying for God to give the church a spirit of Wisdom and Revelation (which inexorably leads to the estrangement of "false teachers") than searching the internet for evidence that Benny Hinn is a "tool of Satan". Why get frustrated playing the game when you can ask God to unplug the machine?
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/4/2008 7:30:21 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1809
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Our current tack of slaughtering the Kim Clements, Steve Shultzes and Benny Hinns of the world is what I have come to term "Whack-a-mole Christianity". You can drop the hammer hard on one, but two more will pop up right after them.
This is hilarious. I sincerely thank you for this amusement.
A serious look however shows that the moles who are whacked are all public figures advertising and making money. There are laws regarding truth in advertising, laws regarding proper use of the public broadcast media and more, and then there is plain ol' truth--all of which are goings-on outside of a prayer room or even the stain-glass windows. Each of us has every right to object to their operations from a sense of civic duty without ever getting to the Scriptural reasons to object to false teachers.
To stand by and do nothing, say nothing, type nothing is not in obedience to Scriptures regarding taking care of the less fortunate which in this case is those losing their money and devotion to God by giving it to those who are not presenting God's voice and God's plan but who claim to be doing so...and that is before ever getting to the Scriptural reasons to object to false teachers.
For all anyone knows...trying to draw the line now may stop some of these from getting worse. That's right! When anyone can set up a "ministry", when they may be getting deaf toward God and may be without any other counsel and oversight, good old public scrutiny may be the only compass they have.
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/4/2008 10:09:20 AM
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Brenyada
Posts: 15
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
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I think Jesus said it himself Matt 5:17, He did not come to abolish the Law (Torah), but to fulfill. If you study fulfill it doesn't mean replace. I'll give you a picture show. If you have a glass of water and it's full, then the glass is full. It doesn't need replaced, thrown out for it is a perfect glass of water. Jesus fulfilled some of Torah. He didn't discard it, he didn't replace it with another teaching, he just fulfilled it and so it is done. Never having the need to be fulfilled again, but always remembered. Like dying on the cross. He doesn't need to die again, but we always remember the fulfillment of scripture of that death. If you abolish the Law (Torah) you are throwing out HIS word. Please continue in Matt and 5:18 "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass asway from the LAW (Torah) until all is accomplished. Heaven and earth has not passed away, so please do not grieve the Father by picking and choosing which part HIS word you follow and embrace.
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RE: Dualing Prophecies-Who's Right? - 10/4/2008 10:55:25 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6105
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Brenyada,
So we're to follow and pay heed to false prophets? What are you trying to say? I am not a man to mince words, so please be blunt with me.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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