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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/4/2008 6:10:13 PM
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Superduck77
Posts: 59
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From: The other side of the pond
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RZWYfkz8w&feature=related
Rapture u tube video tis how it will be poof they r gone its scarry to the lost but a joy to the saved its a powerful video and strong you have fore warned
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/4/2008 9:30:01 PM
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sanctificare
Posts: 13
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Videos such as this are a serious issue. When 2008 comes to an end, and no rapture has occurred, many will be disappointed.
And once again Christians will look ridiculous. Avoid this kind of junk.
_____________________________
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - His good, pleasing and perfect will. [Romans 12:2]
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/4/2008 11:26:32 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 705
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You people still here?
My first Saturday in heaven after the rapture and, wouldn't ya know it...some Luthern from Wisconsin brought lutefisk and lefske to the Baptist pot-luck!
Some things never change! 
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/6/2008 9:26:56 AM
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sunshinesoprano
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From: Georgia
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The funny thing about that last utube link was that it started out as a soul-awareness clip, not a specific time/date clip. Jeepers!!!
_____________________________
Pure Heart-Fresh, Progressive Southern Gospel
Sing, laugh, love, PRAISE!
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/6/2008 1:06:02 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
You people still here?
My first Saturday in heaven after the rapture and, wouldn't ya know it...some Luthern from Wisconsin brought lutefisk and lefske to the Baptist pot-luck!
Some things never change!
Well..............
I was caught up in the air, but there were holes in my cloud.
What a landing! lol.
If it had been a dream, at least I could have awakened before I hit the ground.
I'm awaiting the next "date" and reasoning they didn't really miss it after all.
But, those making such claims should have enough Bible knowledge to know
that this one or that one in 1999/2000 should have been the last date to choose.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/6/2008 1:09:54 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
I Thessalonians 4:15, 17
15. Indeed we say this to you in a word of the Lord, that we,
those left behind who are living to the coming of the Lord, . . .
17. then we, the living, those who are left behind, will be
taken away together with them into the clouds to meet
with the Lord in the air: and thus we shall always be with the Lord.
This is from the Power New Testament 3rd Edition.
A different definition on who is the "left behind."
Those who are alive and not dead at the Resurrection.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/6/2008 3:36:09 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2436
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
I Thessalonians 4:15, 17
15. Indeed we say this to you in a word of the Lord, that we,
those left behind who are living to the coming of the Lord, . . .
17. then we, the living, those who are left behind, will be
taken away together with them into the clouds to meet
with the Lord in the air: and thus we shall always be with the Lord.
This is from the Power New Testament 3rd Edition.
A different definition on who is the "left behind."
Those who are alive and not dead at the Resurrection.
Greetings
Hey Lap let me set it in its proper course
That definition above concerning the left behind is not far off, but there are subject to the same order in verse 15 …below!
in general (according to the scripture)… its been ordered concerning those who sleep in Christ, are in the presence of Christ when they die…..
and this order is the same from Christ then until the coming of the Lord, (that does not change)>
The order is that the dead shall rise first, and then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.
…..Those who alive and remain has nothing to do with the dead, because that has already been ordered in v15.
The reference is to all those who are alive and remain, who have not died…. all those who are alive and remain are termed as being in Christ and are “together” …and are called “together ...
The term “with them” refers to all those who have “already died” and are “already in the presence” of the Lord. So we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (who are already) in the clouds
There is no indication that all those termed to be alive and are together have died as it is ordered in verse 15
The way I see it is , how can the living be subject to the second death as long as those who alive are still subject to v15 of 1 Thess 4 “until” the coming of the Lord
IMO….for the living to be subject to the second death while still alive “at” His coming… the living has to be fulfilled in what is called the rapture, because the souls under the alter were told to wait, which is not consistent with 1 Thess 4:15.
There is that noticeable difference there.
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. F5 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
The term “with them in the clouds”… them in verse 17 “shall be caught up together (all those who are alive and remain)….> “with them.. (These are those who have already died and are already there)… because they have already preceded those who are alive in time past… or verse 15 is lying.
That is where the Catholics came up with the concept of purgatory in believing that all the dead are raised with the living at the same time… and are subject to wait… that’s is not what Paul was speaking of.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/6/2008 4:34:05 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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That's an interesting view and makes sense.
I was just playing with the verbage that translation
was using in "Left Behind." Which is different than
those missing the rapture in the books and movies.
We ARE left behind.
And I can see that as Abraham and Moses have gone
on and "left us behind." lol.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/6/2008 7:41:57 PM
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Pirate-of-Paradise
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i can't believe how many people are being deceived by websites like this and all of that 'left behind' nonsense. when will people go back to basing what they believe on the Bible only, and not man-made traditions?
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/6/2008 11:14:42 PM
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bettymackII
Posts: 1388
Joined: 4/28/2007
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Welcome to the Crosswalk message board,Pirate-of-Paradise!
One of the sign of the last days is deception.
We agree with your post #84.
There is a shortage of Berean who searched the Scripture to see for themselves to see what (Paul) was preaching was according to what
God has said.
Trust you will enjoy your time at this board and this thread.
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/7/2008 4:55:17 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2436
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
That's an interesting view and makes sense.
I was just playing with the verbage that translation
was using in "Left Behind." Which is different than
those missing the rapture in the books and movies.
We ARE left behind.
And I can see that as Abraham and Moses have gone
on and "left us behind." lol.
Greetings
quote:
We ARE left behind.
And I can see that as Abraham and Moses have gone
on and "left us behind." lol.
I always wondered why it is written that Abraham died, but they Haven't found Moses bones yet?
Yet in Jude, it says that ‘Michael the archangel when contending with the devil, disputed about (or fought for) the body of Moses, (and Michael) durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said the LORD rebuke thee.
Here is another prospective,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXAV5lXsku0
But I disagree with the person’s assumption of the 2 witnesses @ 2:56 into the lesson...
The teller says that condemnation in that day is the duty of the Church (which is a crock) in IMMostHO..
…….54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?"
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
56 “For the Son of Man”… did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them."
and The story teller forgot to mention that Abraham told the rich man (in Hades) that those who his are brothers (the lost) "have Moses and the Prophets"... and that “they” should hear them,
Since it was Jesus telling this parable, I have a hard time believing that Moses and Elijah have fulfilled their earthly ministries based on what He said, otherwise the law and the prophets were not fulfilled in ...but died with Christ
But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill “all” righteousness.”
1st is the righteousness in Christ; and the 2nd is the righteous requirements of the law, which is the wrath that is to come.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/13/2008 10:41:40 AM
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devere
Posts: 14
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A new version of the designated driver - thanks for the humor
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/17/2008 12:30:42 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
As far as the rapture, if you’re pretrib then 2008 could be interesting,
if you’re midtrib, 2012 could be interesting, if you’re prewrath then 2014 might
be interesting, if you’re a posttribber then 2015 might be interesting and if you’re
amillennial just sit back and watch the show!
LINK
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/17/2008 12:49:27 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 705
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
As far as the rapture, if you’re pretrib then 2008 could be interesting,
if you’re midtrib, 2012 could be interesting, if you’re prewrath then 2014 might
be interesting, if you’re a posttribber then 2015 might be interesting and if you’re
amillennial just sit back and watch the show!
LINK
Very interesting! I like this quote best: "Believe me He will take whoever He wants to take, whenever He wants to take them and no one will lose points for being wrong."
That's good enough for me! 
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/17/2008 1:24:32 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
As far as the rapture, if you’re pretrib then 2008 could be interesting,
if you’re midtrib, 2012 could be interesting, if you’re prewrath then 2014 might
be interesting, if you’re a posttribber then 2015 might be interesting and if you’re
amillennial just sit back and watch the show!
LINK
Very interesting! I like this quote best: "Believe me He will take whoever He wants to take, whenever He wants to take them and no one will lose points for being wrong."
That's good enough for me!
That's a great point.
I am convinced we are all wrong.
Yet, as a pre-tribber, the view was if you weren't a pre-tribber
then you were going to be lost. But now I realize they will be
completely surprised.
Fitting more in the post-trib label I know that pre-tribbers are
still saved. lol.
Just wasting so much effort on the date-setting and protecting
the doctrine.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/17/2008 3:48:27 PM
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Brenyada
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Joined: 10/4/2008
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Matt. 24:40 "Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left".
If you look up the root word of "taken", it means more violent, seize or remove. That doesn't sound like being raptured to me.
If you look up "left", it means cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let alone. That sounds more peaceful.
Rapture has been mistaught.
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/17/2008 4:06:36 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Brenyada
Matt. 24:40 "Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left".
If you look up the root word of "taken", it means more violent, seize or remove. That doesn't sound like being raptured to me.
If you look up "left", it means cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let alone. That sounds more peaceful.
Rapture has been mistaught.
So true.
A doctrine (rapture) that doesn't exist.
The Scripture teaches RESURRECTION.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/19/2008 9:51:20 PM
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mikeman2
Posts: 278
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Rapture has been mistaught.
So true.
A doctrine (rapture) that doesn't exist.
The Scripture teaches RESURRECTION.
Yes, but if you had read the Torah before the coming of Christ you would be inclined to believe that he would only come once. I think there are hints that might be revealed that show a possible rapture just like their were hints about Christ coming a second time.
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/19/2008 10:12:41 PM
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Fwanger
Posts: 347
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Phillipsburg, NJ
Status: offline
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Whether pre-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath, post-wrath, whenever you think that the rapture is upon you, shouldn't we instead be focusing on spreading the Gospel throughout the world, and being Christ's servants here on Earth, than waiting upon the mountaintop for Him to swoop down and scoop us up before the big one comes?
I believe in the rapture, but I no longer worry myself about when it is coming and whether I think I'll be "left behind." Instead, I try to focus on doing those things that the Lord asks of us.
All that comes from these debates in hard feelings and anger at the people that don't agree with us. Then it comes to endless backbiting and nasty responses between each other. I've read enough on this forum over the years to know that all that comes from these endless debates is bitterness between brothers and sisters.
Live for Christ and He'll come for you soon enough.
_____________________________
Often have I said, I will never doubt the salvation of any one, so long as I can but know that Christ has accepted me. C.H. Spurgeon "The Way of Salvation"
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/20/2008 12:38:45 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 360
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikeman2
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
Rapture has been mistaught.
So true.
A doctrine (rapture) that doesn't exist.
The Scripture teaches RESURRECTION.
Yes, but if you had read the Torah before the coming of Christ you would be inclined to believe that he would only come once. I think there are hints that might be revealed that show a possible rapture just like their were hints about Christ coming a second time.
Shalom, mikeman2.
Well, some might have been inclined to believe that the Messiah would only come once, particularly the Ts'dukim (the Sadducees) who did not believe in the Resurrection, but by and large, orthodox Jews, particularly the P'rushim (the Pharisees) DID know about the two categories of Messianic prophecies. One category of Messianic prophecies painted Him as the Suffering, Dying Messiah, called Messiah the Son of Yosef (Joseph, as in the son of Ya`acov or Jacob) and the other category of Messianic prophecies painted Him as the Victorious, Conquering Messiah, called Messiah the Son of Daviyd (David the King). There were great debates in which rabbis tried to determine whether there would be one Messiah, somehow fulfilling both roles, or there would be two Messiahs.
Yochanan the Submerger (John the Baptist) sent his disciples to Yeshua` (Jesus) to ask him a question about this very debate on the two categories. Look at his words:
Matt 11:2-12
2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
KJV (emphasis mine)
In essence, Yochanan was asking, "Are you going to be the same Messiah that will come later, or should we be looking for another Messiah?" (It was NOT, as some put it, a "lapse in Yochanan's faith"!) Of course, he knew the answer to this, but for his disciples' sakes, he asked the question. The answer that Yeshua` gave Yochanan was the words of Yesha`yahu's prophecy in which he writes:
Isa 35:1-10
1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
KJV
This is a prophecy about the Messiah, the Son of Daviyd, the Victorious, Conquering Messiah; however, Yochanan could already see that the way things were going were leading to Yeshua` being the Suffering, Dying Messiah! Thus, Yeshua` answered the debates. He would do BOTH! One Messiah with two comings. In His first Advent, He came to die as a sacrifice for sin and end the need for additional burnt-offering sacrifices; He was then buried; and three days and nights later He was raised to life again by Abba to redeem the fallen human race.
So, too, Yeshua` will return in a second Advent, a second coming, and reign over the human race, beginning in His own country, Isra'el and spreading out until He becomes King over kings, the King of kings.
While Lapidoth is right about the Resurrection being the main event, a subordinate event to the Resurrection will be the Rapture (or the Harpazo) as it is described in II Thess. 4:13-17:
1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
Note: This passage does NOT say that we are going to "heaven"; it simply says that we shall be "caught up together with them (those resurrected) in the clouds, to meet the Lord (Yeshua` coming in the clouds) in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Thus, we will not leave Him anymore. So, we will go where He goes. But, where is He going? Back up to "Heaven?" No. He is a Man ON A MISSION! He is returning to Isra'el to fight for them!
Joel 2:30-3:5
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompence me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things
KJV
Read through Zech. 12-14, those three chapters!
That's what the Rapture is for. It's not truly that is "doesn't exist"; rather, it exists as a PART of the Resurrection!
Retrobyter
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/20/2008 1:12:13 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
While Lapidoth is right about the Resurrection being the main event, a subordinate event to the Resurrection will be the Rapture (or the Harpazo) as it is described in II Thess. 4:13-17:
quote:
All that comes from these debates in hard feelings and anger at the people that don't agree with us.
I know I seem to disagree, but I agree.
The Bible only teaches the RESURRECTION.
In another end times folder it was argued that the "rapture"
is the "means" of the RESURRECTION. That I buy.
I choose to say "there is no rapture" for the very reason Fwanger observed.
When we use the word "rapture" then we push eveyone's theology buttons.
We do all agree {for the most part} that we will be RESURRECTED. Unless we
are of the Sadducees. So, I prefer not to use the word rapture for the ideology
that it brings to mind.
RESURRECTION is the event; RAPTURE is the vehicle. lol.
Thanks for the comment on Yohann the mikveh guy.
I hadn't thought of that angle.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/23/2008 10:54:17 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 360
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom Lapidoth.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
While Lapidoth is right about the Resurrection being the main event, a subordinate event to the Resurrection will be the Rapture (or the Harpazo) as it is described in II Thess. 4:13-17:
quote:
All that comes from these debates in hard feelings and anger at the people that don't agree with us.
I know I seem to disagree, but I agree.
The Bible only teaches the RESURRECTION.
In another end times folder it was argued that the "rapture"
is the "means" of the RESURRECTION. That I buy.
I choose to say "there is no rapture" for the very reason Fwanger observed.
When we use the word "rapture" then we push eveyone's theology buttons.
We do all agree {for the most part} that we will be RESURRECTED. Unless we
are of the Sadducees. So, I prefer not to use the word rapture for the ideology
that it brings to mind.
RESURRECTION is the event; RAPTURE is the vehicle. lol.
Thanks for the comment on Yohann the mikveh guy.
I hadn't thought of that angle.
I see your point, now. That's cool. It falls into the same category as to why Messianic Jews don't use the word "Christian." There's just too much history with too many bad feelings attached for Jews to use the word, even if they believe in Yeshua`, especially when they are attempting to talk to other Jews about the Messiah.
Yes, you're right; to use the word DOES polarize people into their various theological positions. Yeah, I tend to see the Harpazo as a "mass transit system" to get us to Isra'el in a hurry so Yeshua` can arrive with His army quickly to rescue His nation Yisra'el.
Oh, and you're welcome.
Retrobyter
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/23/2008 12:34:42 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3593
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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LOL.
Yeah, even as a Gentile Christian, I hate being called a christian
because of the mindsets derived from it now.
The rhetoric has lost the meanings.
But, I don't like walking on egg shells barefoot, so I still get in trouble.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: THIS IS THE BIG ONE!!!!! - 10/23/2008 1:43:10 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2436
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom Lapidoth.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
While Lapidoth is right about the Resurrection being the main event, a subordinate event to the Resurrection will be the Rapture (or the Harpazo) as it is described in II Thess. 4:13-17:
quote:
All that comes from these debates in hard feelings and anger at the people that don't agree with us.
I know I seem to disagree, but I agree.
The Bible only teaches the RESURRECTION.
In another end times folder it was argued that the "rapture"
is the "means" of the RESURRECTION. That I buy.
I choose to say "there is no rapture" for the very reason Fwanger observed.
When we use the word "rapture" then we push eveyone's theology buttons.
We do all agree {for the most part} that we will be RESURRECTED. Unless we
are of the Sadducees. So, I prefer not to use the word rapture for the ideology
that it brings to mind.
RESURRECTION is the event; RAPTURE is the vehicle. lol.
Thanks for the comment on Yohann the mikveh guy.
I hadn't thought of that angle.
I see your point, now. That's cool. It falls into the same category as to why Messianic Jews don't use the word "Christian." There's just too much history with too many bad feelings attached for Jews to use the word, even if they believe in Yeshua`, especially when they are attempting to talk to other Jews about the Messiah.
Yes, you're right; to use the word DOES polarize people into their various theological positions. Yeah, I tend to see the Harpazo as a "mass transit system" to get us to Isra'el in a hurry so Yeshua` can arrive with His army quickly to rescue His nation Yisra'el.
Oh, and you're welcome.
Retrobyter
Greetings,
quote:
Yes, you're right; to use the word DOES polarize people into their various theological positions. Yeah, I tend to see the Harpazo as a "mass transit system" to get us to Isra'el in a hurry so Yeshua` can arrive with His army quickly to rescue His nation Yisra'el.
It’s not the same thought....
…….Harpazo is to seize, to carry off “by force”... if we look at how Jesus phrased that here in this example….
Mt 11:12 - Show Context
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force = Harpazo is to seize by force… or QUICKLY
So what was written before the AND in v11:12 above is the addition to what is explained in v13
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied (THAT) until John. (Which means John did not)
Now here is the key.. If we are willing to receive it
14 And if you are willing to receive it ...he (John) is (the forerunner) of Elijah... “who is to come. …That’s an end time reference!.
15 He who has ears to “hear, let him “hear! = a revelation of the pattern to be kept in the last days…
SO what does that mean??
... Jesus said …..he is Elijah ....who is to come
Jesus did not say he (John) is Elijah …who had come...he said ..."who is" to come,
…..so the reference is prophetic to the “example of John”… who didn’t preach what all the prophets and the law prophesied.
That which I just offered ......is what Paul is expressing by saying speaking of here saying... how he was caught up into Paradise ....and.... heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter
2 Corinthians 12:1-10
And I know such a man--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
What is the understanding in current Jewish and Christian prophecy of Elijah’s role "or the cup of Elijah" in the last day, Does any one have any info on that?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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