|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: No more prayer to Jesus in VA - 9/27/2008 10:02:40 PM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7879
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
|
quote:
So they wimped out when it came to mentioning Jesus' name in the US Constitution? If they wanted us to LEGALLY be just a Christian nation, they would have had the courage to put it in the most important legal document of the company I think.
The Founding Fathers personal affirmations and opinions are protected by the first amendment but declaring it in the Constitutional is the only way to make sure that their personal opinions were enforceable by law.
Patrick Henry put it best when he said as you quoted, "For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” Ergo, we are not going to discriminate against non-Christians. This view may have came from their Christian convictions but they didn't make America a strictly Christian nation.
Who is arguing that anyone intended the US to 'legally' be a Christian nation - indeed, how is that even possible?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Republicans ignoring first amendment. - 9/27/2008 11:02:58 PM
|
|
|
letusreason
Posts: 807
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I notice, Dubya, that among others, you leave out Jefferson. Is there a reason you are dodging the fact that Jefferson wrote the Congressional Koran? Would you like police chaplains praying the peace of Allah upon families?
This is misleading and distortion.
And as Paul Harvey used to say, ....the rest of the story....
On Thursday, January 4, 2007, Keith Ellison from the 5th Congressional District of Minnesota was sworn in as a Democrat Member of the 110th Congress amid the media fanfare of being the first Muslim elected to Congress.
The following day, in a swirl of national controversy, Ellison had the usual private swearing-in ceremony, but this time on a 1764 Koran owned by Founding Father Thomas Jefferson.
(Interestingly, Congressman Ellison took his ceremonial oath of office on the Koran owned by Thomas Jefferson. A pertinent question might be: Why did Jefferson own a Koran? A simple answer is: To learn the beliefs of the enemies he was fighting. Recall that Jefferson had been personally exposed to Islamic beliefs when attempting to secure peace between America and Muslim terrorists. Having been told by the Muslim Ambassador that the Koran promised Paradise as a reward for enslaving, killing, and war, Jefferson inquired into the irrational beliefs that motivated the Muslim groups and individuals warring against America. Therefore, using Jefferson’s Koran was perhaps not as noble an image as Ellison tried to portray, despite his unfounded claim that the Koran is “definitely an important historical document in our national history and demonstrates that Jefferson was a broad visionary thinker. . . . It [the Koran] would have been something that contributed to his own thinking.” [51] The Koran did contribute to Jefferson’s thinking, but certainly not in the sense Ellison meant.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: No more prayer to Jesus in VA - 9/27/2008 11:50:13 PM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL:
Kaine stands firmly behind the prohibition of Jesus' name.
You mean he stands firmly behind the establishment clause?
If he is a Christian- or even a man of his word, he doesn't have much choice in this regard. He took an oath to uphold the constitution.
'In Jesus name, Amen.' Oops, I established a government religion! 'Praise Allah!' There, I changed the government relgion. 'Protect us, Adonai.' Viola, a new government religion.
Some things are just soooo absurd.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: No more prayer to Jesus in VA - 9/28/2008 2:06:11 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Actually, Jack, to go further here, many of them would have argued against state sponsored chaplains in the first place. Here's what Madison had to say when he opposed the office of the congressional chaplain:
Actually, it would be more than difficult to demonstrate that 'many of them' would have argued thusly given the military chaplaincy was begun in 1775, and continued after the establishment of the US government. In fact, Madison was on a commitee that appointed such chaplains; so while his later life musings are interesting, they seem not to have been practically employed.
Well, whether or not we agree that Madison's later legislative opposition to chaplains was 100% representative of his whole life, I'm sure you'll agree that some very respected people while elected officials opposed chaplains merging church and state.
If you have a problem with Kaine's actions, you have a problem with Madison's actions, too.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: No more prayer to Jesus in VA - 9/28/2008 3:13:50 PM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7879
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
|
quote:
Well, whether or not we agree that Madison's later legislative opposition to chaplains was 100% representative of his whole life, I'm sure you'll agree that some very respected people while elected officials opposed chaplains merging church and state.
If you have a problem with Kaine's actions, you have a problem with Madison's actions, too.
Well, one doesn't have to agree with everything our Founders did throughout their lives simply because they were right in their work on the Constitution. I appreciate many of Jefferson's contributions to the fledgling democracy, and yet disdain his owning of slaves - and I wouldn't support a sitting governor who advocated slavery because one of our founders owned slaves.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
|
RE: No more prayer to Jesus in VA - 9/29/2008 8:58:37 AM
|
|
|
ekserekseez
Posts: 661
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
|
How about trying freedom of speech? If one chaplain wants to pray in Jesus' name, let him or her. If another one wants to pray in Allah's name, or Buddha's (okay, Buddhists don't pray to the Buddha), or Shiva's, or the Virgin of Guadalupe, or Satan, who cares? Can't people hearing something different from what they believe in just ignore it?
If you're at some big public event, the chaplain's prayer is not the main show, it's just a formality and most of the people in the audience ignore it or daydream during it.
Everyone's too PC these days, left and right. Help, someone said Allah! I'm offended! Someone said Jesus! My rights are violated! My kid had to hear someone talk about a religion (or no religion) that's different than our family's, so I'd better sue!
The fundamental problem here is not the prayer, it's that we let people sue for stupid things.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: No more prayer to Jesus in VA - 9/29/2008 9:09:53 AM
|
|
|
freakofnature
Posts: 819
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Can't people hearing something different from what they believe in just ignore it?
Perspective!
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
