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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 1:43:25 PM
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RubySparkles
Posts: 273
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No, but you're more likely to get the attention of the unsaved. No guarantee their attention will last beyond 26 December though.
_____________________________
Lord, all our success is because of what you have done, so give us peace.
Is 26:12
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 1:55:28 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Summer is barely over and there are Christmas cards and decorations in the shops already!!!
Christmas (although a man-made tradition) none-the-less gives Christians an excellent opportunity to share the Gospel with non Christians and other faiths. Or does it?
Do you believe Christmas makes any real difference to any other time of year when it comes to sharing the good news of Jesus' birth and the reason why He came? Or do you think it is possible that we are fooling ourselves by continuing a tradition which causes many a lot of grief and sadness due to what the tradition has become concerning many (i.e. materialistic)?
I think our biggest opportunity as far as Christmas is concerned is to just say NO to the madness of the materialistic season it has become. Our family has. We keep it simple. Yes, we celebrate Jesus' birth but have said NO to the shopping frenzy and gift purchasing.
When I was in grad school, I saw Christmas for what it has become in this country as my Muslim girlfriend shipped her Christmas tree back to Cairo.
Heartfelt communications with others, such as letters and cards, are a wonderful tradition. Family and friend gatherings are wonderful too. And a house that's awaiting Jesus' coming is indeed special. But I think we could speak loudest by saying NO to the material. . .
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 4:09:41 PM
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delete123
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quote] Did man make that first Christmas? No, so there should be nothing remiss about a tradition where Christians honor Christ's birth just like the shepherds and magi of the first Christmas did.
[/quote]
Sorry Norak, but Jesus was not born on December 25th. The holiday known as Christmas actaully came from pagan holiday as well as Easter.
I do not engage in the materialistic part of christmas although I buy for my son. I actually already started a small list to start soon. I do not want to be or encounter the stampede of those who show not self control.
Do I believe sharing Christ during this time effective, No I do not. Like what you stated they are not focused on Him just what they went to the mall for (the materialism)
I did however years back when I worked at a hospital the Holy Spirit showed me a need during Christmas and that He was ever present and near those who were left out.
You would be surprised how many people do not visit their loved ones whether a hospital or nursing home during these times. It is soo sad and those are the folks who could use encouragement and hope
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 4:28:35 PM
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TorchHeart
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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Before I go any futher with this, I have to know.... will whether or not I get the "Ms. Pac-Man" arcade machine I asked Santa Claus for depend on how I answer in this thread?
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 4:32:06 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6631
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
Sorry Norak, but Jesus was not born on December 25th.
Is that supposed to be news to anyone? I knew that back in the 60s when I was a kid.
BTW, the incarnation did happen and it was of God, not pagans. I refuse to give pagans any credit for my celebration of the incarnation of God the Son, my Savior.
But feel free to give credit where you will.
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 4:36:04 PM
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TorchHeart
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The materialistic part of Christmas is mainly for kids, in my view. Yes, it can mean something to adults, too, but its up to us (as individuals and as a church) to make sure that the true meaning of this Holiday isn't over-looked.
Is it easier to spread the word of God at this time? I think it depends on who you're targeting. If you're targeting the average Joe Schmoe off the street, maybe not. But if you're looking at people who are in need of something (I'm not talking Uncle Phil with his new sweater; I'm talking about people who are sick or down-and-out, etc.), then using this time of year as a reason to go out of your way to do something special for them might be an effective method of showing people what being a Christian is supposed to be about, and thus maybe interest them more in looking at our faith and the Word as something that really has meaning and that they might be more willing to look into.
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 4:46:16 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
Sorry Norak, but Jesus was not born on December 25th.
Is that supposed to be news to anyone? I knew that back in the 60s when I was a kid.
BTW, the incarnation did happen and it was of God, not pagans. I refuse to give pagans any credit for my celebration of the incarnation of God the Son, my Savior.
But feel free to give credit where you will.
No but Norak's answer certainly makes one wonder if she/he believe that Jesus was really born on that day.
Yes I do understand the incarnation happened, but it wasn't on December 25th and if you believe that was truly the day, then you better go back and read some more
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 5:10:27 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
BTW, the incarnation did happen and it was of God, not pagans. I refuse to give pagans any credit for my celebration of the incarnation of God the Son, my Savior.
It was their holiday first. We borrowed the time, many of the traditions, etc. The only thing we added was the reason for the celebration. It part of history.
You give credit where you want. As for me and my house, we celebrate the incarnation of God the Son.
quote:
It was their holiday first.
ROTFLOL! Pagans celebrated the Incarnation first?
When my family and friends gather with a cake and gifts on MY birthday, they don't stay away or refuse to participate because at some time, somewhere in the distant past, a group of pagans celebrated something else on that day. They might stay away for some selfish reasons, but not for what others may have done on the same day in the middle ages.
...The things people will give over to the world and allow them to rob them of their joy.
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 5:14:00 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
...Yes I do understand the incarnation happened, but it wasn't on December 25th and if you believe that was truly the day, then you better go back and read some more
To re-quote what I wrote:
quote:
I knew that back in the 60s when I was a kid.
That means I have known more than 40 years that Jesus was not born on December 25. Knowing that has not robbed me of the celebration of the Incarnation any time since then. Capish?
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 5:24:07 PM
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mvic
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Man is fickle and has a short memory.
That is why he needs reminding of the basics - the Virgin Birth (Christmas) the Resurrection (Easter) and the Crucifixion (Crosses in Church and similar images). Basic Christian principles.
Sadly, some Christians have forgotten these and are Christians in name only. So what hope have we to preach/teach the un-believers when some of our own have lost the message?
A senior cleric in the UK, some years ago, suggested that we should not take the Virgin Birth and Resurrection too literally. I guess he's not the only Christian with that view.
Here's the link:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,952448,00.html?promoid=googlep
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 5:30:49 PM
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JimboFletch
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MVIC, you made some very good points. On principle, I dislike doing something special just because of a date on the calendar. Unfortunately for me, I probably would seldom take time to reflect or celebrate some important events if not for those dates to prompt me to do so.
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 5:43:59 PM
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mvic
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I agree JimboFletch. We all need reminders of the enormity of the event relating to Christmas - me included.
I felt so strongly that the message of Christmas was being diluted year after year by commercialism that I dedicated a special page in my website to it. Here it is if you're interested: http://www.holyvisions.co.uk/visionschristmas.htm
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 5:50:36 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
I agree JimboFletch. We all need reminders of the enormity of the event relating to Christmas - me included.
I felt so strongly that the message of Christmas was being diluted year after year by commercialism that I dedicated a special page in my website to it. Here it is if you're interested: http://www.holyvisions.co.uk/visionschristmas.htm
EXCELLENT! Thanks for sharing.
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 5:50:58 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 221
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
Sorry Norak, but Jesus was not born on December 25th. The holiday known as Christmas actually came from pagan holiday as well as Easter.
No but Norak's answer certainly makes one wonder if she/he believe that Jesus was really born on that day.
Such a shame that one would spend time wondering about such trivialities. No, Dec. 25th is not the DATE of Christ's birth, but it is a Christian celebration of Christ's birth. My mother died in July, but do you really think I care what exact date on the calendar it was? The original pagan celebration of Sol and Victus on Dec. 25th was taken over by the Christians as Christmas, the celebration of the birth of Christ. Everyday I miss my mother, but I do tend to visit the grave site on the 4th of July because I took that day as the day I would pay respect & reverence to my mother's memory. America does not own it.
And the first recorded Thanksgiving Day was September 8th, 1565. It is the day that we celebrate our thanks and we celebrate Easter as the Resurrection of Christ anywhere between March 22 and April 25, but because it is not on a fixed date, does this mean that Jesus was any the less crucified? And yes, this was originally a pagan holiday, too, but Christians took this symbolic day for their remembrance and reverence to God, also.
These things are a matter of the heart, not a Day Timer or calendar.
Is that a "bad" thing?
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: Christmas - 9/30/2008 6:06:29 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1496
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quote:
These things are a matter of the heart, not a Day Timer or calendar.
Is that a "bad" thing?
Not at all.
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RE: Christmas - 10/1/2008 7:29:26 AM
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19ramman85
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Personally - I have came to the conclusion, that I don't think God really appreciates us using Pagan ideas to celebrate anything even remotely in connection to His Glorious Name!
-charles
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RE: Christmas - 10/1/2008 7:37:35 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6631
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
The pagans didn't celebrate the Birth of Christ, first; the holiday we celebrate as Christmas was originally the Roman celebration for the Winter Solstace...
The fact is, Christians never, ever celebrated Christmas as anything related to Winter Solstace. The only ever celebrated it as a celebration of the Incarnation of God the Son. If you are willing to give December 25 over to some long dead Romans, go ahead and surrender. I'm not joining the crew of that sunken ship.
BTW, I took 2 years of Latin in high school, so I'm familiar with Saturnalia. There is nothing in that extinct observation that involved Sovereign God taking on flesh in order to make provisions to redeem mankind. It certainly had nothing to do with a Jewish virgin.
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RE: Christmas - 10/1/2008 7:39:36 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6631
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 19ramman85
Personally - I have came to the conclusion, that I don't think God really appreciates us using Pagan ideas to celebrate anything even remotely in connection to His Glorious Name!
-charles
Just curious, what pagan ideas involve redeemed believers celebrating God the Son's Incarnation for the purpose of making atonement of sin that man is incapable of doing? I just don't see it.
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RE: Christmas - 10/1/2008 9:05:19 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1496
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
The pagans didn't celebrate the Birth of Christ, first; the holiday we celebrate as Christmas was originally the Roman celebration for the Winter Solstace...
The fact is, Christians never, ever celebrated Christmas as anything related to Winter Solstace. The only ever celebrated it as a celebration of the Incarnation of God the Son. If you are willing to give December 25 over to some long dead Romans, go ahead and surrender. I'm not joining the crew of that sunken ship.
BTW, I took 2 years of Latin in high school, so I'm familiar with Saturnalia. There is nothing in that extinct observation that involved Sovereign God taking on flesh in order to make provisions to redeem mankind. It certainly had nothing to do with a Jewish virgin.
You're missing the point, either intentionally or accidently. Please quit twisting my words if this is intentional. I have never said that Christians celebrated it as anything but the BIRTH of Christ; I have simply stated the fact that the traditions of the holiday that we now use are borrowed from what was originally a pagan celebration. When they borrowed these traditions, it was probably as a means of survival to avoid persecution from Roman authorities. By adopting the December 25th as their day of celebration and some of the traditions of surrounding existing pagan holidays, Christians were able to celebrate Christ's birth with out fear of their rulers.
BTW: It was Dias Natalis Solis Invicti (an old Roman holiday of the Sun), an old Roman holiday marking the day of the Winter Solstace that we Christians borrowed as our date of celebration. We did borrow some of the traditions of Saturalia (gift giving and celebration), as well as those of other Roman holidays that fell around that time (such as the Roman New Year). And we use these traditions to celebrate the BIRTH of Christ. As Christians always have for however many years we've celebrated it.
Again, I will reiterate: NOBODY is saying that Christians celebrated Christmas as anything other than the Birth of Christ. NOBODY is saying that the pagans celebrated "(a) Sovereign God taking on flesh in order to make provisions to redeem mankind. It certainly had nothing to do with a Jewish virgin." NOBODY is turning Christmas over to the "sunken boat" of a group of pagans; simply stating where the origins of the traditional celebration (such as giving of gifts, yule logs, the date, etc.... the stuff that's NOT found in the Bible) came from.
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Christmas - 
No Jamie. You misunderstood my post (go figure). 