RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice) can cause abortions
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 1:48:32 PM
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Mrs.X
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
No menses, no abortion.
You are still ovulating with an IUD. If you were to ovulate and the egg became fertilized, that is life. By preventing implantation of the fertilized egg (which is what the IUD does), that is what most here would consider abortion.
quote:
I think ya'll are turning this into a very mute point. I find it irresponsible to support said notions above. people who do not want to have children should not have children and take the necessary steps to avoid having them.
I completely agree that people that shouldn't have children ought to prevent them. I think a barrier method or a hormone that completely prevents ovulation altogether is more of a moral choice though. I am on Depo now (prevents ovulation) and next month or December I'll be getting Implanon (also prevents ovulation). Implanon is similar to the IUD in the sense that it prevents pregnancy for three years. You get a rod inserted into your arm, and after three years is up, you can get another one or get it taken out.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 5:53:20 PM
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clag4christ
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quote:
If you've had all the children you want and aren't morally opposed to contraception, why would you choose a potential abortivacient over sterilization?
Very good question.
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<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 6:11:04 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
sterilization?
Probably because it is easay, less expensive and less painful than surgery.
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 6:17:26 PM
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Mrs.X
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
sterilization?
Probably because it is easay, less expensive and less painful than surgery.
We're pretty sure we're done having kids unless something changes dramatically with our finances, but what if, right? I don't want to get sterilized either just in case something changes. How did your body do with Depo? If it was OK for you, I highly recommend the Implanon. They insert it into your arm, and you forget about it for three years. Very easy.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 6:22:47 PM
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clag4christ
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
sterilization?
Probably because it is easay, less expensive and less painful than surgery.
Because in the mean time there are possibly fertilized eggs, babies, that are being aborted through the IUD. That's why...for the sake of life.
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 6:28:25 PM
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deliveredarling
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It's the same thing with the IUD. My body reacts to both the same. The only problem I had with depo was the shot every three months. I don't object to the Implanaon, it just wasn't an option my doctor told me about when we discussed my options. I didn't know it existed or I would have opted for that.
I probably need to explain something here, not to speak for the general public, but most people do not know or have not heard that the pill and IUD's can cause abortions. That is not explained nor is it told to prospective people seeking information on birth control.
I still highly disagree that they are these things. I feel strongly that they do what their name claims-control;l births by prevention.
If people want children they don't take or need info on birth control.
Even if ovulation occurs, i can't abort without there being blood and there is no blood, so......
I still find the whole concept an extremist point of view and a waste of time to try an argue or convince other people.
If doctors aren't telling their patients these "facts", doesn't that raise some eyebrows? What do they really stand to gain from not telling them? That's what doesn't make sense about any of this.
I suggest we just allow people to make the decision for themselves.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 6:44:42 PM
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Mrs.X
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Yeah, Implanon is fairly new. It replaced Norplant which was 3 rods inserted into your arm for 3-5 years.
quote:
Even if ovulation occurs, i can't abort without there being blood and there is no blood, so......
The fertilized egg (baby) would be so small you probably wouldn't even notice when he/she came out. The uterus lining would normally thicken and then the fertilized egg could implant and grow, but since the IUD makes the uterus inhospitable, the fertilized egg just comes out.
The doctors do tell the patients these facts (and the little drug fact sheet they give you does too), but they don't expect the patients to put two and two together. They do tell you that it makes the uterus inhospitable, but they probably use a less personal term.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 6:48:47 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2909
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quote:
If doctors aren't telling their patients these "facts", doesn't that raise some eyebrows? What do they really stand to gain from not telling them? That's what doesn't make sense about any of this.
I suggest we just allow people to make the decision for themselves.
Lots of doctors aren't educated on the secondary purpose of the pill. And if they are they assume that women won't have a problem with it because "they don't want a baby right now". People should be allowed to make the decision for themselves...an *educated* decision about all the effects of BCP and IUD's.
If they didn't harm babies then why do they state in their patient information "You should not take the pill if you suspect you are pregnant or have unexplained vaginal bleeding." Taken from HERE
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/10/2008 11:05:20 PM
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Dona Nobis Pacem
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I probably need to explain something here, not to speak for the general public, but most people do not know or have not heard that the pill and IUD's can cause abortions. That is not explained nor is it told to prospective people seeking information on birth control.
There are many people who might not use them if they knew all the facts.
The fact that they can cause abortions is a reason they should be avoided.
quote:
I still highly disagree that they are these things. I feel strongly that they do what their name claims-control;l births by prevention.
You can disagree all you want but it won't change the fact that some forms of birth control have the potential to be abortifacients.
Why don't you do a search on abortifacients and see what you come up with.
As someone stated before, contraception and birth control are not terms which are interchangeable. Contraception is a form of birth control, but not all birth control prevents conception.
quote:
I still find the whole concept an extremist point of view and a waste of time to try an argue or convince other people.
Do you believe protecting the life of unborn children is an extremist point of view?
quote:
If doctors aren't telling their patients these "facts", doesn't that raise some eyebrows? What do they really stand to gain from not telling them? That's what doesn't make sense about any of this.
I suggest we just allow people to make the decision for themselves.
How can one make an informed decision if they don't have all the info?
Peace,
DNP
_____________________________
Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/11/2008 5:58:16 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
have the potential
This is very different from saying this is what they are and that it is there sole purpose.
It's a very misleading statement.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/11/2008 6:11:12 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
Do you believe protecting the life of unborn children is an extremist point of view?
To the extent that has been discussed here, yes. What I am hearing is that only certain forms of bc are acceptable. While the ones that are being suggested are not as effective and have high risks of the person using them the ability to get pregnant when they do not want to be.
quote:
How can one make an informed decision if they don't have all the info?
I can't speak for all person's, but my doctor just laid out the options, handed me some phamphlets, said think about it and come back next week.
I choose the IUD because of conveinince, bc I didn't have to worry about or even think about. I liked the idea that my menses would not start up again. That's a huge plus! Spontaneous abortion was never mentioned, at all. The Implanon wasn't mentioned, neither was norplant.
Let me ask you something, let's say that there was a fertilized egg, if the woman did not know about it ad it passed on through, what is the problem? How would the woman have known it was there? And why is it a major deal if the idea was to not get pregnant in the first place?
Can a person be guilty of not knowing?
My understanding of this particular pieve is that it releases hormones that make the uterus "slick" or inhospitable for a egg to attach to the wall. I don't have menses, I don't ovulate (to my knowledge), so there could be no fertilized egg to begin with.
I just don't have a problem with these forms of BC
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/11/2008 6:14:37 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
1. Many doctors *do* say this, and many doctors refuse to perscribe such things. And some pharmacists won't fill them because of this ethical problem--did you miss that controversy?
Apparently so, the only controversy I ever heard about was the morning after pill.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/11/2008 10:12:40 AM
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Dona Nobis Pacem
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quote:
To the extent that has been discussed here, yes. What I am hearing is that only certain forms of bc are acceptable. While the ones that are being suggested are not as effective and have high risks of the person using them the ability to get pregnant when they do not want to be.
That is a sad statement that you think that those who seek to protect the life an unborn child is an extremist point of view. While I personally do not agree with bc in general, I would encourage the use of natural family planning.
If someone is going to use it I would suggest staying away from potential aboritifacients.
If someone REALLY doesn't want to get pregnant they can also practice abstinence. I only know of one case when it didn't work.
quote:
I choose the IUD because of conveinince, bc I didn't have to worry about or even think about. I liked the idea that my menses would not start up again.
Now I think we see the real issue. It doesn't matter if it might cause an abortion, as long as it's convenient.
quote:
And why is it a major deal if the idea was to not get pregnant in the first place?
There is a huge difference between using a method that:
A. Prevents pregnancy
and one that
B. Allows for the potential to become pregnant and then if that happens, not allow the unborn to survive.
Because something prevents birth DOES NOT mean it prevents pregnancy.
quote:
I just don't have a problem with these forms of BC
Of course you don't, you already said it's convenient for you.
Respect Life,
DNP
_____________________________
Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/11/2008 11:59:48 AM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
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From: Newberg, OR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I don't have menses, I don't ovulate (to my knowledge), so there could be no fertilized egg to begin with.
I can completely understand wanting something conveient. I also want to have a BC that is conveient, otherwise I'd ditch the hormones and use barrier methods. And, I agree it was getting to be a pain to go to the clinic every three months to renew Depo.
Have you ever felt yourself ovulate? It's usually a tiny little cramp on one side. Not really bothersome at all, if you weren't thinking about it, you might not even notice it. I can actually feel myself ovulate. I have never ovulated while on Depo, but I do know I ovulated on BC pills. The first way most of these BCs work, as you know, is to prevent ovulation. Some methods are better at this than others. I read the statistics on a pamphlet at a clinic once, and the IUD prevented ovulation 80% of the time, BC pills were thereabouts also, The Patch was something like 90%, Depo (and Norplant at the time) were 99.9%. I asked the nurse there about the 99.9%, and she the pharmicuticals aren't allowed to say any BC will protect against ovulation 100% of the time, but more than likely they weren't able to find any woman who ovulated on it.
So, in 10 months, you may ovulate twice, 15 months you might ovulate 3 times, 20 months you might ovulate 4 times.
With Implanon (if your body did OK on Depo) you probably won't mense at all. The procedure is only 10 minutes and is less invasive than an IUD implant. They give your arm local anesthesia and use a weird looking needle to insert the rod into your arm. The rod is about the size of a wooden match. And, that's it. It is my understanding that taking an IUD is fairly simple and painless, and they allow you to take it out before the 3 years is up.
What do you think? Have we swayed you at all? This isn't really one of those things like "Well, I don't feel convicted....so, it's not bad for me." Those are the facts.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/11/2008 1:16:46 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
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OK, I'll tell you what. Next month when I get Implanon, I'll PM you and tell you how it went. The clinician was trying to convince me of getting the copper IUD but I cannot even fathom getting something that invasive, plus it didn't agree with my morals. I'd much rather get a rod shot into my arm. LOL
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/11/2008 3:40:54 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
I'd much rather get a rod shot into my arm. LOL
I'd be very willing to have a rod put in my arm verses having another IUD. It was bad on the pain scale. Childbirth for me was easier and less painful, I kid you not.
I will be interested to know how the Implanon goes and if it hurts. I still have three years of this IUD left. Other than the initial insertion, there have been no problems what so ever.
Having more children, just isn't an option for me any longer. My kids are 16 next month, and 11 in January. I'm happy with the two. God answered my prayers.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/12/2008 2:05:50 AM
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tenfour
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Let me ask you something, let's say that there was a fertilized egg, if the woman did not know about it ad it passed on through, what is the problem? How would the woman have known it was there? And why is it a major deal if the idea was to not get pregnant in the first place?
Can a person be guilty of not knowing?
Suppose there was a person whose kid was away at camp. And every time they had intercourse, there was a 1 in 1000 chance that someone would kill the child. The person wouldn't be aware that it happened. And it wasn't their intent for it to happen. But they chose to take the risk for their own convenience. There are plenty of BC choices that are not potential abortificants.
To someone who believes life beings at conception, some methods of BC cause abortions. There are lots of choices in life in which Christian beliefs should eliminate some of your options. Life is not 100% convenient if you want to live by any kind of moral standard.
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/12/2008 3:40:49 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Do you believe protecting the life of unborn children is an extremist point of view?
To the extent that has been discussed here, yes. What I am hearing is that only certain forms of bc are acceptable. While the ones that are being suggested are not as effective and have high risks of the person using them the ability to get pregnant when they do not want to be.
Conception control is completely acceptable. Birth control is not.
quote:
I choose the IUD because of conveinince, bc I didn't have to worry about or even think about. I liked the idea that my menses would not start up again. That's a huge plus!
That would be a good reason for me to avoid it, personally. For a hormone to prevent my body from doing what it was designed to do would worry me.
quote:
Let me ask you something, let's say that there was a fertilized egg, if the woman did not know about it ad it passed on through, what is the problem? How would the woman have known it was there? And why is it a major deal if the idea was to not get pregnant in the first place?
A fertilized egg is a baby. To intentionally prevent a baby from implanting is aborting it. Because that is ONE of the intentions of the bcp, it is wrong. You can't separate the intention of the pill from your intention. If you take it, knowing how it operates, it is also your intention.
quote:
Can a person be guilty of not knowing?
I'm not sure. But I sure did repent for using the bc pill for 5 yrs. I didn't know about this effect at the time or I never would have used them. I really hope that I did not unknowingly abort any babies while on the pill.
But now you know...
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I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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RE: The birth control pill and IUD (introuterinedevice)... - 10/15/2008 10:33:33 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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Nearly all "birth control" pills prevent ovulation- no ovulation, no chance of conception, no unplanned pregnancy, no abortion.
RU-240, or the "morning after" pill prevents implanting of the fertilized ovum(known as a "zygote"). That can be defined as an abortion.
The IUD technically irritates the lining of the uterus, preventing implanting of the zygote. That can be defined as an abortion.
After my 4th child, and because the marriage was coming apart due to my ex's infidelities and abusive behavior, I had my fallopian tubes snipped, clipped, cauterized, and tied off so that I would not get pregnant again. My 4th child was an unplanned pregnancy and things were very difficult, and I honestly considered having an abortion because I wasn't sure I could take care of the children I had if my then-husband left us. I didn't have the abortion, but I ended up being a single mom with a $5/hr part-time job(25 hrs/wk), $432/mo food stamps, and I had to file my own child custody/child support petition because my ex lived in another state and TN Child Support Enforcement said it wouldn't be cost-effective to persue on behalf of my children. Had it not been for my family, we wouldn't have made it.
FYI, there are plants which are natural abortifaecents. These include raspberry leaves, juniper seeds, and trillium. Those who drink "herbal" teas or handle plants should know the medicinal properties of those plants so as to avoid unintentional poisoning or miscarriage. Many popular house and garden plants are likewise poisonous and several can cause a miscarriage if ingested.
If you're planning on getting pregnant or think you may be pregnant you should immediately stop using herbal supplements or handling plants bare-handed unless you are sure that they will not cause you, your unborn child, or your family and pets harm. Your local Forestry or nursery agency can refer you to websites or resources to find this information.
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A half a day outpatient surgery is not at all difficult, not is it painful to have a tubal ligation. And I wouldn't know about the cost, but I personally would much rather pay any price than have an IUD. 
I am old enough to remember the babies born with copper IUDs implanted in their precious little bodies...