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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/9/2008 8:37:29 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1080
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Eve was not indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Really?
I do not know but I don't think anyone was indwellt by the HS until Jesus came and left....??
As far as evil existing before Eve sinned, I would say evil did not exist until the act was done. Its not like evil was floating around and bopped Eve over the head. Evil was the action taken. Before the action, there was no evil. satan provided the deciet. Eve provided the sin.
If Eve did not have free will then sin could not have entered the world. She would have been incapable of sinning. The choice could not have been made without free will.
Yes, the choice could not have been made without free will, absolutely correct. But, again, for there to be a choice there must be something to choose, you cannot choose what is not, but only what is. If you are saying that man created evil when he ate the fruit, then you have just made man the cause of his own effect. Which is to make man a god.
That is the fallacy of humanism, that man has the potential to generate and activate his own effects. Sin is generated by Satan, and because it is, only God can take care of our sin "problem"...and He does through His Son, Jesus Christ.
Okay, I can't let this one go. Putting aside the evil thing. There were none who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit, after Adam and Eve and before the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is that very Holy Spirit, the spiritual life of God, that departed Adam and Eve in the day that they ate of the fruit...and they died. They did not die physically, they lived for hundreds of years; they died spiritually, because the spiritual life force of the Holy Spirit departed them.
God created Adam in His image, but we are born in Adams image, spiritually dead and in need of life. This is why the virgin birth of Christ is not up for grabs and this is why Jesus Christ is the only solution to mans problems...because He alone has The Life that we need.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/9/2008 10:45:21 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1903
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quote:
Yes, the choice could not have been made without free will, absolutely correct. But, again, for there to be a choice there must be something to choose, you cannot choose what is not, but only what is. If you are saying that man created evil when he ate the fruit, then you have just made man the cause of his own effect. Which is to make man a god.
Exactly my point…God provided the options; follow God or do it your way.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/9/2008 11:08:45 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1080
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Yes, the choice could not have been made without free will, absolutely correct. But, again, for there to be a choice there must be something to choose, you cannot choose what is not, but only what is. If you are saying that man created evil when he ate the fruit, then you have just made man the cause of his own effect. Which is to make man a god.
Exactly my point…God provided the options; follow God or do it your way.
Bob
God created Satan. Satan provided the option of evil. Follow God or follow Satan.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/9/2008 1:21:42 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1903
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From: Kansas
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quote:
God created Satan. Satan provided the option of evil. Follow God or follow Satan.
Sorry URForgiven but apparently God gave Satan a choice and it seems that Satan adopted the wrong choice.
I think it is openly apparently that God provided the option for a person to choice sin, including Satan.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/9/2008 3:40:21 PM
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SonInMe1
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satn cannot make me sin. satan did not make Eve sin. Eve sinned. She could not have sinned without free will.
I did not make my point well I guess about evil. I am not sure I can do it any better.
Evil is not something that exists oputside of action. It doesn't float around and land on people. Evil exists when people do it.
Evil cannot exist and does not exist without free will. If there is no human ability to sin, free will, then sin could not happen.
I also do not believe evil originates with satan or that the evil we do is in any way or form satan's responsibility and not our own. satan, it seems, commited the first sin by rejecting God as Master....an action that is defined as sin by God.
satan did not CREATE evil. satan does not create anything. he is the liar, the deciever.
quote:
That is the fallacy of humanism, that man has the potential to generate and activate his own effects. Sin is generated by Satan, and because it is, only God can take care of our sin "problem"...and He does through His Son, Jesus Christ.
So, it was satan's sin that caused the world to fall? I have never heard of this before...we are not responsible for our actions? Its all satan's fault? We cannot overcome satan?
We sin. It is our fault. Now you can say as an unsaved person we are a slave to sin, that I can agree with. We cannot overcome sin without God. However your premise, if carried out means we have no responsibility in life, no free will, that as saved people we cannot sin because God is in control and satan no longer has control over us.
quote:
Exactly my point…God provided the options; follow God or do it your way.
Its not this simple. If it was then all those thousands of debates on predestination, sinless christians and eternal salvation are a waste of time.
quote:
Satan provided the option of evil.
Not anymore than God did when He put that tree in the garden. satan tried to decieve Eve. God placed the tree in the Garden. It was Eve's free will that caused her to sin and for evil to take root in the world.
When God said..do not eat the fruit of that tree....He provided Eve with the choice. No tree....no choice. No free will....no choice. No command against eating the fruit...no choice. What did satan do? All he did was whisper in Eve's ear saying, hey its ok. God is trying to keep something from you...go ahead.
If Eve had no free will and was compelled to always be obediant to God, then she could not have sinned, but God did not set it up that way. It was up to Eve to believe God...or satan. Eve made the choice. Unlike most of us, she had direct contact with both God and satan.
A free will choice caused evil.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/9/2008 5:32:05 PM
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bravjim
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The root of all evil would have to be the sin nature. The sin nature is exclusive to man, but it is satan that tempts. To say it is the love of money or greed is incomplete, because of sexual sin. You could say pride, but the root of pride is still the sin nature.
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I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/9/2008 11:23:57 PM
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bob97
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It seems to me that Adam and Eve were the only one's who had a choice...they were alive but chose to die in sin. We are dead in sin and as such cannot respond to good. It is only through the grace of God that we can be resurrected to life.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/10/2008 1:08:24 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1080
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Satan cannot make me sin. satin did not make Eve sin. Eve sinned. She could not have sinned without free will.
I did not make my point well I guess about evil. I am not sure I can do it any better.
Evil is not something that exists outside of action. It doesn't float around and land on people. Evil exists when people do it.
There are no evil thoughts, or attitudes or lies? Evil exists, and it exists and originates from Satan, and that is really as far as we can go.
quote:
Evil cannot exist and does not exist without free will. If there is no human ability to sin, free will, then sin could not happen.
Satan is the evil one, there is nothing in him but evil, and yet he now does not have free will. He cannot choose to be anything other than what he is. Free will is our ability to choose, not our ability to sin. We can use it to choose good or bad.
quote:
I also do not believe evil originates with satin or that the evil we do is in any way or form satin's responsibility and not our own. satin, it seems, commited the first sin by rejecting God as Master....an action that is defined as sin by God.
Satan did not CREATE evil. satin does not create anything. he is the liar, the deciever.
Satan cannot create anything. But he is the cause and the origin of all evil. The evil we do is our choice to do, but it does not originate with us any more than righteousness or goodness originates with us.
quote:
That is the fallacy of humanism, that man has the potential to generate and activate his own effects. Sin is generated by Satan, and because it is, only God can take care of our sin "problem"...and He does through His Son, Jesus Christ.
quote:
So, it was satan's sin that caused the world to fall? I have never heard of this before...we are not responsible for our actions? Its all satin's fault? We cannot overcome satin?
We sin. It is our fault. Now you can say as an unsaved person we are a slave to sin, that I can agree with. We cannot overcome sin without God. However your premise, if carried out means we have no responsibility in life, no f ree will, that as saved people we cannot sin because God is in control and satin no longer has control over us.
It was mans sin that caused the fall. Mans sin was to choose to believe Satan's lie over God's truth. Man is totally responsible for his actions and his choices, and he is responsible because he has free will and has the ability to choose good or evil.
Our responsibility, as Christians, is to abide in Christ, who has defeated the enemy.
quote:
Satan provided the option of evil.
quote:
Not anymore than God did when He put that tree in the garden. Satan tried to deceive Eve. God placed the tree in the Garden. It was Eve's free will that caused her to sin and for evil to take root in the world.
So God tempted Adam and Eve with the tree? Really?
Satan did deceive Eve. Eve's free will did not cause her to sin, it gave her the option to choose sin. It was the choice she made that brought sin into the world.
quote:
When God said..do not eat the fruit of that tree....He provided Eve with the choice. No tree....no choice. No free will....no choice. No command against eating the fruit...no choice. What did satin do? All he did was whisper in Eve's ear saying, hey its ok. God is trying to keep something from you...go ahead.
God did not offer a choice...God gave a command..."do not". Satan offered the choice by tempting Eve with His lies, causing doubt. The tree was not evil, Eve was not evil, God is not evil, the fruit was not evil, free will is not evil... Satan is evil.
quote:
If Eve had no free will and was compelled to always be obediant to God, then she could not have sinned, but God did not set it up that way. It was up to Eve to believe God...or satan. Eve made the choice. Unlike most of us, she had direct contact with both God and satan.
A free will choice caused evil.
You are correct, it was up to Eve to believe God...or Satan. And she choose to believe Satan. She choose to believe the lie over the truth of God. Her free will choice did not cause evil, it accepted it. And by accepting it , brought it to every man woman and child born of Adam.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/14/2008 11:17:24 PM
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shood1943
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The root of all evil is ignorance. Remember Jesus said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."
Truly it is ignorance that gets us into these messes. If we were truly knowledgeable there would be far fewer problems.
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 5:10:04 AM
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Third-eye
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The root of all evil is our own sinful nature which Satan relies upon to lead us astray and away from God's will.
Our human spirit and the Holy Spirit are in contant conflict with one another.
That is why we must die to self and be filled with the Spirit,daily.
God gives us the strength to do so.
Praise Him,in the highest,for only He is worthy.
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 6:45:25 AM
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Cloak
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The Fall of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden is the root of all evil.
However, Jesus came along as a mediator be God and man for the atonement of SIN.
We as believers have been redeemed through the blood of Jesus!
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 7:52:33 AM
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nettiel
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 the root of all evil is suppost to be money.but i believe to, that not believing in a loving and great god is just as bad,or worse.nettiel
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 8:03:53 AM
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SonInMe1
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According to many...
rich white heterosexual christian men
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 9:46:49 AM
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e.barrett
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When a newspaper in England asked, "What's wrong with the world?" GK Chesterton wrote in and simply said, "I am"
It's a response that I've always liked.
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R3 - a blog devoted to understanding how to live out a life of faith
Visit it at www.r3blog.net
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 10:48:58 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1903
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Sorry All but I'm more inclined than ever to think that evil is nothing more than the lack of God's will in our lives. God's will is prefect and without God's will we will live an imperfect life.
Inverse of that...the more of God's will we have in our lives, the more perfect we are. The problem is...in this life we can never be completely perfect.
We must make the decision to either come back to God's will or continue to live within our own will and our own will will lead to damnation.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 11:21:12 AM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nettiel
the root of all evil is suppost to be money.but i believe to, that not believing in a loving and great god is just as bad,or worse.nettiel
It's the love of money, not the actual money. Loving anything in place of or more than God is the root of all evil and it's called idolatry.
Satan loved himself more
Some people love money more
Some people love XYZ more...
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RE: Root of all evil? - 10/15/2008 4:21:19 PM
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campbe33
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us.
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"Let your conversation be gracious and seasoned with salt so you will have the right response for everyone"
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