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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/10/2008 1:17:28 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
What man's junk is another man's gold! Music is a a subjective thing. What one person thinks is the greatest artist/band in the universe is nails on a blackboard to another.
Oh, I'm not saying that some music, even poorly produced music, can't be enjoyed by some people. But there is still a measure of skill/talent that can be obvious to any listener. By way of example, most rap music I've heard (which, I admit, is a relatively small amount) does not have a great deal of musical talent being demonstrated (arguably there is lyrical talent there, but that is, in my opinion, distinct from musical talent). Similarly, singers/groups that rely on machines to "fix" their vocals don't demonstrate great musical ability - they demonstrate access to fancy equipment.
Some music is just formulaic. You can tell that the performer is putting together the song because they know it will sell, not because they were moved to write it. That doesn't mean that people can't enjoy it. I'm sure that some of the songs I enjoy listening to would fall into that category. However, that doesn't make it good music. Or to put it another way - I enjoy eating at Taco Bell, but that doesn't make it good Mexican food.
I actually agree with you and I'm sorry if you felt I was taking issue with what you said.
Sometimes, I just have to accept that people like artists/groups I think are inane. I don't understand why they do but I have to just accept that my junk music is some person's favorite. I've learned that people identify themselves with their music to a point that if you don't like their music they take it as you don't like them!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/10/2008 1:39:24 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1628
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
I actually agree with you and I'm sorry if you felt I was taking issue with what you said.
No worries. : ) I'm not the kind of person who automatically assumes disagreement = contention. If everyone agreed, the world would be a boring place, right? But thanks for letting me know.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/12/2008 7:22:35 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17861
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
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ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
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ORIGINAL: gtrdave
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
BTW, a lot - and I mean a LOT - of the old hymns took their music from "secular" songs, even barroom music.
This is actually being proven to have been nothing more than a myth:
The confusion possibly comes from the songs of that era being written in "bar style"...a type of Medieval poetry...as opposed to being written to a "bar tune"...a song for local drunkards to croon at the pub.
I get a different story from reading from the links you provided. And people did not always go to all "bars" to get drunk and bawdy. There were even coffee bars in Mozart's day.
But the main point is that many, many hymns took their music from "secular" songs - and popular "secular" songs have long been sung or played in pubs & bars for ages.
BTW, having been a music major, I'm not overly confused about the use of the term barroom or bars when I use them.
Reading y'all's discussion reminded me of this song by Glad...
Glad - that hymn thing
WOW, someone actually found this online, thanks!
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/18/2008 11:47:16 PM
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Nakedprey
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/10/2008
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This is an ancient argument that pretty much holds no validity whatsoever. Bottom line is, there are far more artistically relevant, creative and prolific artists in the secular realm. I've explored both realms and I'm pretty convinced I've hit a wall as far as CCM is concerned, but in secular music - I feel as if I have barely gotten started.
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/19/2008 6:27:29 AM
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Silverstring
Posts: 112
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Norway
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
This is an ancient argument that pretty much holds no validity whatsoever. Bottom line is, there are far more artistically relevant, creative and prolific artists in the secular realm. I've explored both realms and I'm pretty convinced I've hit a wall as far as CCM is concerned, but in secular music - I feel as if I have barely gotten started.
Given that the argument is ancient, I think artist and composers like
Antonio Vivaldi
J.S.Bach
Georg F.Haendel
Joseph Haydn
Felix Mendelssohn
Olivier Messiaen and
Sofia Gubaidulina
should be included.
Music made and performed by Christians is quite a bit more then what's on CCM.
_____________________________
Everything worth something costs something
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/19/2008 10:27:41 AM
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gaylel1
Posts: 1326
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southern California, the land of Fruit and nuts...
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Think of it this way--without gospel music, there would not be any secular music.
This is true-check out your history.
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Hear "The Truth" with the "other"l Jeff Johnson(http://www.calvarydowney.org)
Visit me at http:www.gayleplace.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/gaylel121
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/19/2008 1:08:12 PM
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Hayseed
Posts: 580
Joined: 4/15/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
Think of it this way--without gospel music, there would not be any secular music.
This is true-check out your history.
Absolutely true. Unfortunately, church-people threw a lot of those young kids they inspired out the doors for their music.
"Secular" or "Christian" musicians deal with the problem of getting "signed" to a label that in turn, usually, will then start "grooming them for success" in the narrow market of that label. Fortunately, there are labels out there (usually the small startups) that realize that a musician is there for doing what it is they do in the first place and not to be changed to sell units.
_____________________________
My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/21/2008 7:22:42 PM
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wbporter
Posts: 76
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Silverstring
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
This is an ancient argument that pretty much holds no validity whatsoever. Bottom line is, there are far more artistically relevant, creative and prolific artists in the secular realm. I've explored both realms and I'm pretty convinced I've hit a wall as far as CCM is concerned, but in secular music - I feel as if I have barely gotten started.
Given that the argument is ancient, I think artist and composers like
Antonio Vivaldi
J.S.Bach
Georg F.Haendel
Joseph Haydn
Felix Mendelssohn
Olivier Messiaen and
Sofia Gubaidulina
should be included.
Music made and performed by Christians is quite a bit more then what's on CCM.
A men! I've played or sung something by everyone on that list except Sofia. Just heard part of a viola concerto by her within the last few minutes, but nothing screamed "I've got to hear that again."
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Pacem.
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/21/2008 9:25:35 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2498
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
Think of it this way--without gospel music, there would not be any secular music.
This is true-check out your history.
Classical Music would not exist? Bagpipe and drum core? German drinking songs or oompah music? Mariachi music? Strauss waltzes? Military marches? Although influential it's just one piece of the puzzle my friend!
Besides it grew out of jazz and blues! Secular music!
< Message edited by mapachito13 -- 10/21/2008 9:32:02 PM >
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/22/2008 9:44:35 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1934
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
This is an ancient argument that pretty much holds no validity whatsoever. Bottom line is, there are far more artistically relevant, creative and prolific artists in the secular realm. I've explored both realms and I'm pretty convinced I've hit a wall as far as CCM is concerned, but in secular music - I feel as if I have barely gotten started.
I think part of the reason for this is that there are a lot more creative outlets and venues available to secular musicians than there are to Christian musicians. Every town has at least a couple bars that have live bands (even if they're just cover bands), but "good Christians" don't play there. How many churches host musicians that aren't the in-house praise band? And when they do host outside bands, they're still likely to fall into the same bland CCM mold.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Secular music sucks - 10/26/2008 10:42:26 AM
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MusicianDad
Posts: 386
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
I think part of the reason for this is that there are a lot more creative outlets and venues available to secular musicians than there are to Christian musicians. Every town has at least a couple bars that have live bands (even if they're just cover bands), but "good Christians" don't play there. How many churches host musicians that aren't the in-house praise band? And when they do host outside bands, they're still likely to fall into the same bland CCM mold.
-Dan.
Very true, although both of my kids who play at church, also play at bars. They do it whith the same guys they play at church with. It's cool when they do the "we're a worship team and here's some of the songs we play at church" set. Yes, you can witness to people anywhere.
_____________________________
Heartland Rocks!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EK9opsMo0jg
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RE: Secular music sucks - 11/11/2008 10:32:53 AM
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nealmorsefan
Posts: 315
Joined: 10/18/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
I've explored both realms and I'm pretty convinced I've hit a wall as far as CCM is concerned, but in secular music - I feel as if I have barely gotten started.
I would argue that you have not explored Christian music enough.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nakedprey
Bottom line is, there are far more artistically relevant, creative and prolific artists in the secular realm.
Thank you for proving my point.
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RE: Secular music sucks - 11/15/2008 2:13:45 AM
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JumpyJimmy
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nealmorsefan
Christians in general are less sophisticated or less intelligent than your average heathen. Do you really believe that? Is there something about salvation that shrinkens the creative part of your brain? C'mon, secular music snob.
I suppose it depends on your thought process. Many christians I have met tend to stop thinking when they get to the alter to pray. God gave you a brain so use it.
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