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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 11:19:27 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1547
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huckfinn327
quote:
(Quote Keepingfaith)
Looks like RA Torrey saw it as continual adultery. This is a quote from him.
"Look at the legalized adultery we call divorce. Men marry one wife after another and are still admitted into good society; and women do likewise. There are thousands of supposedly respectable men in American living with other men's wives, and thousands of supposedly respectable women living with other women's husbands." - R. A. Torrey From R.A. Torrey's book How to Pray, pages 94-95
R.A. Torrey (1856-1928) was a very well-known Christian writer, evangelist, pastor, graduate of Yale University, and was also the superintendent of Moody Bible Institute for 19 years.
Greetings Keepingfaith,
I really appreciate your post here quoting R.A. Torrey. I find Torrey in complete agreement with the Lord Jesus Christ when Jesus said:
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Mar 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
Mar 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
Mar 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mar 10:10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
Mar 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
Mar 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Huckfinn
According to today's teachings and practices, it is interesting to note that R.A Torrey would have been looked at as a radical/judgmental Pharisee because he viewed divorce/remarriage as legalized adultery. The thing is, as HuckFinn said, Torrey's beliefs were 100% in line with Jesus' teachings on the issue. Today, there is no way that R.A Torrey would be able to lead Moody Bible Institute, let alone teach in any of the churches affiliated with Moody Bible Institute or College. What he called "legalized adultery" (men living with other men's wives and women living with other women's husbands) is common practice now in the "church". How far we have fallen, and yet, we proclaim "all is well with the Lord!"............ 
How it must grieve the heart of God to see those who claim to follow Him persecute and reject those(and even ask such to leave their church) who obey His commands and walk faithfully honoring the vows of marriage they took. Such churches reject the truth that the Word of God confirms that those who pray for restoration are not in fact coveting another person's spouse, but are praying in accordance with the Lord's heart/will as presented to us in His Word.
Benelchi,
Will you show biblical evidence that such "standers" are in opposition to the Word of God in their stands? Since you believe 2nd marriages nullify the first marriage, can you show that such standers are coveting another's spouse (committing adultery) by praying for that spouse to come home and be reunited with their 1st spouse/children? Either they are in sin, and churches are correct in casting them out (or telling them to 'be quiet' about their beliefs) or the churches which condone 2nd/3rd/ etc marriages are in sin. Which is it?
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 3:46:57 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 510
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Either they are in sin, and churches are correct in casting them out (or telling them to 'be quiet' about their beliefs) or the churches which condone 2nd/3rd/ etc marriages are in sin. Which is it?
It is very sad indeed that most churches do not even support standers- because they know if they do take a stand what that means for the other side. As for telling them to "be quiet" about their beliefs... of course they don't want their false teachings exposed and they know how many in their crowds are living with other people's spouses under the guise of remarriage.
I was just thinking today, how did we get here??? How did we get this far away from the truth? When did the vows become conditional... so if our spouse doesn't fulfill theirs- ours no longer apply? Why don't Pastors see this? Why don't they encourage faithfulness, unconditional love and forgiveness- Christlikeness??? Why is there so much "protection" for second and third marriages, and no respect for the first one that they VOWED FOR LIFE??? Why is so much obligation placed on fulfilling the second set of vows in the next marriage and not the first one??? Why is there no focus on restoring families?
It is sad usually standers are painted as the ones in "denial"- they just can't face reality. But the reality is the spouse who is in a "marriage" that Jesus calls adultery is in denial- living with someone who is not their spouse- as Torrey said. The stander is the one who has accepted the truth- hard as that truth is...
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/27/2008 3:58:40 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 510
Joined: 5/11/2007
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quote:
Mar 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
This is a very important point that the other side hasn't addressed. They have not provided any evidence that once God makes 2 people ONE FLESH... they can be made 2 again.
No longer (Ouketi) means NEVER again two. Other verses Jesus uses (Ouketi) for "no longer".... Mark 14:25, John 6:66, Acts 8:39 and it meant NEVER AGAIN...
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 2:13:37 AM
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blessednw
Posts: 811
Joined: 4/12/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
It is just incomprehensible to me that you would trust the most critical issues in life to self proclaimed human experts in contradiction to the word of God.
But this is something I haven't done!!! I really and truly have rejected their interpretation because I recognize that it stands in CONTRADICTION TO THE WORD OF GOD. Ignoring those "self proclaimed human experts" has been quite easy to do. No matter how much they SHOUT at me, or tell me that their interpretation is THE WORD OF GOD, I recognize the difference and I haven't been deceived. I have have steadfastly embraced the truth of God's word, and continue to reject the distorted interpretation of it pushed so hard by those "self proclaimed human experts" (most found here on this thread). I can assure you that I hold the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD in far higher regard than I do anything taught by these "self proclaimed human experts"!
Then why do you always appeal to the experts when your position is challenged rather than the Word of God? You use this same tactic as well as trying to demean your opponents because you can't defend your position due to the fact that it is full of contradictions. It's always "everyone who's smart agrees with me, and I am the Hebrew expert and you need to go to school to be as smart as me" etc. Every time I challenge you to defend the obvious flaws in your position you always resort to ad hominem attacks against me rather than answering the challenges to your position, which proves that you cannot defend it. If you could you would actually prove that I don't know what I'm talking about with facts rather than just saying it and ignoring my challenges.
How do you interpret "They are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate", "A wife is bound as long as her husband lives", "the wife should not leave her husband", "if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband", "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery", "if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery", "whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery", etc, etc, etc.
These statements are not vague and open to different interpretations. They are clear absolute statements that refute what you're trying to claim, so it's not a matter of "my interpretation" verses "your interpretation" but whether you choose to accept the only possible meaning of God's Words, or reject them. I don't need a PHD in Hebrew and Greek to see that you are teaching the antithesis of what these and many other verses state.
SealedEternal
The word is so uncompromising and unconfusing, that is when you submit to it as the authority in your life on the subject of marriage, in this case.
Well said, Sealed. God made a binding bond for life. No one is supposed to take it apart, or put it asunder. To their folly if they do.
Down with divorce culture! So tired of the cut and dump mentality and the Body of Christ being known for writing off spouses and/or their growing families.
Up with honoring vows made in solemn promise to God. Up with the spirit of Elijah.........of which John the Baptist was a forerunner.......
Malachi 4:5-6. "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."
Who did Elijah confront? jezebel. What did she represent? False worship, false prophecy, sexual perversion, getting the people to rebel against God, using seduction to induce to false worship. the same kind of worldly spirit behind compromise to God's clear commands.
Christians are suffering in great numbers with major attacks (spiritual, through fleshly compromise) in their marriage relationships. Selfishness is at an all time high. What is the answer to a mate who is rebelling against the Lord? Retaliation? A "justification" to sin also, perhaps in adultery?
By no means, but prayer in the trial, and obedience to the word of God is the only remedy. God will be faithful when man is not. The enemy always tries to get us to let our offenses compel us to sin so we break fellowship with God. If we resist evil, it will flee from us.
Just as the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of salvation, so the complete word of God is the judge of men's intentions. Each one will be answerable and the word is our living, powerful discerner, exposing our thoughts and intentions.
Hebrews 4:12 (New King James Version)
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (New King James Version)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
The divorce culture, and breaking life commited vows (or trying to anyway) has a stronghold on some individuals' thinking and some corporate christian thinking. The Word of God is the thing that casts down strongholds. We all know the enemy builds up a stronghold in people's minds.
I am grateful for the unapologetic word of God which you quote above, that pierced deep and discerned my thoughts, unraveling the stronghold in my mind that supported and justified the divorce and adulterous mentality.
No longer.
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 6:06:08 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 1875
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just south of Atlanta GA
Status: offline
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quote:
So tired of the cut and dump mentality and the Body of Christ being known for writing off spouses and/or their growing families.
Me, too. I do agree that many times a couple quits when they shouldn't. They just never learned how to live out a healthy relationship and start blaming each other. Since they feel that other person is the cause of all the trouble, they cut and dump. BUT I don't agree that this is in all cases.
_____________________________
the journal of selling my wonderful home http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2008 12:50:02 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 841
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Timothy3_16
quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I agree 100%.
What we disagree with is the concept that marrying a differant partner when our original partner is still alive is or is not continuous adultery.
I refuse to gamble my salvation on whether that means a contious state or not. Others may do as they please but only a fool will trust a fool that thinks they are smarter than God.
It is illogical to say that divorce and remarriage is adultery, but then claim it is only temporarily so and subsequently becomes a legal marriage. Adultery by definition is the sin of a married person having sexual relations with someone who is NOT his or her spouse, which is what Jesus says these people are doing.
So my question to them is; When does this adulterous affair become a binding marriage? By definition Jesus says they are not married, and this person is still married to another. What about the other spouse that is having adultery committed against them and patiently waiting for their spouse to return? At what point does their husband or wife become the property of the one the other person was committing adultery with, and the innocent partner lose custody of their spouse to the adulterous partner?
It is also simply unbiblical to say that any sin is only a sin when it is initially committed, and then becomes perfectly acceptable to God. Why would adultery be any different? I agree that it would be extremely foolish to gamble ones eternal destiny on such reasoning.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/6/2008 8:18:56 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3594
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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SE: a hypothetical question.
If a spouse gets notice that his/her marriage partner has been captured and killed (like in Iraq or Afganistan) and even see a video of their death but there is no body, is remarrying at this point a sin in your opinion?
What about if a few years later this person is found to be alive?
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/6/2008 8:46:39 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 841
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
SE: a hypothetical question.
If a spouse gets notice that his/her marriage partner has been captured and killed (like in Iraq or Afganistan) and even see a video of their death but there is no body, is remarrying at this point a sin in your opinion?
What about if a few years later this person is found to be alive?
Personally I would wait a little while and make sure. If one did remarry and found out their spouse was alive they would have been unknowingly committing adultery all along. I wouldn't fault the person for unknowingly sinning, but I would advise them to stop committing adultery when they did realize it, because I believe they would be accountable once they were aware of the sin.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/7/2008 9:09:44 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3594
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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How can someone commit a sin like adultery and NOT be held accounable?
In other words, whether or not the person committed adultery was contingent on the actions of someone on the other side of the world (i.e. whether or not the captors actually killed them)? How is that consistant with a God who said that each would be held accountable for his own actions and not those of others?
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/7/2008 8:13:43 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 841
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
How can someone commit a sin like adultery and NOT be held accounable?
Perhaps they would be held accountable, I don't know. All I know for sure is that they would be held accountable once they knowingly stayed in the adulterous relationship.
quote:
In other words, whether or not the person committed adultery was contingent on the actions of someone on the other side of the world (i.e. whether or not the captors actually killed them)?
Whether or not they commit adultery is contingent on whether they have sexual relations with someone other than their spouse while their spouse lives.
quote:
How is that consistant with a God who said that each would be held accountable for his own actions and not those of others?
The person who attempts to marry again while they are already married is the one committing the sin, and would be the one held accountable for such actions. How they are judged if they sincerely didn't realize they still had a spouse, I don't know.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 1:42:02 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 457
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessednw
quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
It is just incomprehensible to me that you would trust the most critical issues in life to self proclaimed human experts in contradiction to the word of God.
But this is something I haven't done!!! I really and truly have rejected their interpretation because I recognize that it stands in CONTRADICTION TO THE WORD OF GOD. Ignoring those "self proclaimed human experts" has been quite easy to do. No matter how much they SHOUT at me, or tell me that their interpretation is THE WORD OF GOD, I recognize the difference and I haven't been deceived. I have have steadfastly embraced the truth of God's word, and continue to reject the distorted interpretation of it pushed so hard by those "self proclaimed human experts" (most found here on this thread). I can assure you that I hold the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD in far higher regard than I do anything taught by these "self proclaimed human experts"!
Then why do you always appeal to the experts when your position is challenged rather than the Word of God? You use this same tactic as well as trying to demean your opponents because you can't defend your position due to the fact that it is full of contradictions. It's always "everyone who's smart agrees with me, and I am the Hebrew expert and you need to go to school to be as smart as me" etc. Every time I challenge you to defend the obvious flaws in your position you always resort to ad hominem attacks against me rather than answering the challenges to your position, which proves that you cannot defend it. If you could you would actually prove that I don't know what I'm talking about with facts rather than just saying it and ignoring my challenges.
How do you interpret "They are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate", "A wife is bound as long as her husband lives", "the wife should not leave her husband", "if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband", "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery", "if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery", "whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery", etc, etc, etc.
These statements are not vague and open to different interpretations. They are clear absolute statements that refute what you're trying to claim, so it's not a matter of "my interpretation" verses "your interpretation" but whether you choose to accept the only possible meaning of God's Words, or reject them. I don't need a PHD in Hebrew and Greek to see that you are teaching the antithesis of what these and many other verses state.
SealedEternal
The word is so uncompromising and unconfusing, that is when you submit to it as the authority in your life on the subject of marriage, in this case.
Well said, Sealed. God made a binding bond for life. No one is supposed to take it apart, or put it asunder. To their folly if they do.
Down with divorce culture! So tired of the cut and dump mentality and the Body of Christ being known for writing off spouses and/or their growing families.
Up with honoring vows made in solemn promise to God. Up with the spirit of Elijah.........of which John the Baptist was a forerunner.......
Malachi 4:5-6. "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."
Who did Elijah confront? jezebel. What did she represent? False worship, false prophecy, sexual perversion, getting the people to rebel against God, using seduction to induce to false worship. the same kind of worldly spirit behind compromise to God's clear commands.
Christians are suffering in great numbers with major attacks (spiritual, through fleshly compromise) in their marriage relationships. Selfishness is at an all time high. What is the answer to a mate who is rebelling against the Lord? Retaliation? A "justification" to sin also, perhaps in adultery?
By no means, but prayer in the trial, and obedience to the word of God is the only remedy. God will be faithful when man is not. The enemy always tries to get us to let our offenses compel us to sin so we break fellowship with God. If we resist evil, it will flee from us.
Just as the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of salvation, so the complete word of God is the judge of men's intentions. Each one will be answerable and the word is our living, powerful discerner, exposing our thoughts and intentions.
Hebrews 4:12 (New King James Version)
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (New King James Version)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
The divorce culture, and breaking life commited vows (or trying to anyway) has a stronghold on some individuals' thinking and some corporate christian thinking. The Word of God is the thing that casts down strongholds. We all know the enemy builds up a stronghold in people's minds.
I am grateful for the unapologetic word of God which you quote above, that pierced deep and discerned my thoughts, unraveling the stronghold in my mind that supported and justified the divorce and adulterous mentality.
No longer.
Well said! It is the spirit of Elijah against the spirit of Jezebel in these last days. The other day I read an interesting article titled "seven signs of a falling nation". One of the signs is broken marriage due to divorce. This message compares the present Western Christian nations with the then Roman Kingdom. I am quoting the message from The Real Truth at http://www.realtruth.org - an article written by By Bruce A. Ritter
quote:
At the start of the Roman Empire, fathers took seriously their role in properly instructing, training and educating their sons, and mothers taught their daughters as well. The example of strong and active parents daily ingrained into children the importance of obedience, deference to civic authority and respect for the laws of the land.
But as new generations came of age, the family weakened and fractured. Husbands and wives gave in to the pulls of human nature to engage in widespread adultery, inevitably leading to increasing rates of broken marriages. Divorce for virtually any reason became legal; wives only had to say to their husbands three times in succession, “I divorce you!” to bring it to pass.
Also, parents came to spoil their children, who then grew up to become lazy adults who were irreverent, disobedient to authority and had little respect for the elderly or the “old paths” of social norms and values.
Likewise, the family unit in America, Britain, Australia, Canada and other sister nations of the West is under constant assault. Broken marriages and fractured households are now the norm.
Few fathers exercise a strong hand in teaching, guiding and correcting their young, often leaving mothers to fill both parental roles.
Children are growing up pampered and catered to, never learning to accept and recover from setbacks—never being taught to “rise up before the hoary head, and honor the face of the old man” (Lev. 19:32), which is connected to fearing God—never instructed to think of others before themselves.
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 2:37:44 PM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
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Here is another Scriptural view on this subject:
www.divorcehope.com
for those Christians hurting and needing the help and love of Jesus and other Christians
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 4:32:34 PM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
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They Say We Have A Spouse Yet We're Unmarried
We have been incorrectly taught and blindly believe that once a person is divorced, they somehow still have a spouse. They cannot get married again. This lie is designed to keep people in bondage their entire lives. To see how much your mind has been conditioned, answer the following questions:
If you were divorced or your spouse was deceased, would you still have a mate? Of course not! Let me ask the same question a different way. If you are a woman and your husband was divorced from you or deceased, would you have a husband? And if you are a man and your wife was divorced from you or deceased, would you have a wife? To seek answers to these simple questions may seem silly, but if we have answered them as “Yes”, that’s what we’ve been taught.
We have been told that a person cannot get married once they have been divorced because their spouse is alive, even though after the divorce they don’t have a spouse; but once that spouse dies, they can then get married. In the case of a woman who has been divorced, it is NOT true that their HUSBAND is alive, but it IS true that their FORMER HUSBAND is alive. To put it another way, we were told that we were “bound” (married) to someone when we weren’t. We were quoted that “a wife is BOUND by law as long as her husband lives [that’s if she has one, but a divorced woman doesn’t have a husband]; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord” (1Corinthians 7:39).
This isolated Scripture was used as an illustration by the Apostle Paul to give an example of when a person dies; they are no longer under the law. Paul was NOT teaching about divorce.
How then can we accept that we have a spouse when we’re not married? When a person is divorced, they don’t have a husband or wife. This means they are not “bound” to someone. This Scripture is for the person who is MARRIED and wants to marry someone else while they are still married to another. You can’t be married to two people at the same time. If you’re divorced, you CAN get married again BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A HUSBAND OR WIFE. Simply, you’re single or unmarried, if divorced.
“I say to the UNMARRIED and widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I [the Apostle Paul] am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, LET THEM MARRY. FOR IT IS BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BURN WITH PASSION” (1Corinthians 7:8,9). Who would “burn with passion” the most: the person who was NEVER married, who never knew a close intimate relationship and the pleasures of sex, or the person who had been married? God knows the power and pull that a sexually intimate relationship has on a person once they are separated from their spouse. That’s why He said concerning prayer and fasting, “Do not deprive one another [sexually] except with consent for a time, that you may give yourself to fasting and prayer; AND COME TOGETHER AGAIN SO THAT SATAN DOES NOT TEMPT YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF SELF-CONTROL” (1Corinthians 7:5). from www.divorcehope.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 9:00:16 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 841
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
They Say We Have A Spouse Yet We're Unmarried
Who are they?
quote:
We have been incorrectly taught and blindly believe that once a person is divorced, they somehow still have a spouse.
Are you saying that Jesus taught incorrectly?
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.
According to Him, the person who "divorced" is committing adultery to remary, which by definition means they still had a spouse when the remarriage occured, and are now having relations with someone who is not his or her spouse.
quote:
They cannot get married again.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
quote:
This lie is designed to keep people in bondage their entire lives. To see how much your mind has been conditioned, answer the following questions:
If you were divorced or your spouse was deceased, would you still have a mate?
If you are divorced the Bible says you do, while if your spouse is dead it states you do not:
1 Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
Romans 7:2-3 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
quote:
Of course not! Let me ask the same question a different way. If you are a woman and your husband was divorced from you or deceased, would you have a husband?
Again, Jesus says YES to those who "divorced":
Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
Matthew 5:32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. And whoever shall marry the one put away commits adultery.
Mark 10:5-12 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.
quote:
This isolated Scripture was used as an illustration by the Apostle Paul to give an example of when a person dies; they are no longer under the law. Paul was NOT teaching about divorce.
Again, YES HE WAS:
Romans 7:2-3 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
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How then can we accept that we have a spouse when we’re not married?
Because God said we don't have the authority to separate what He has joined:
Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
Mark 10:5-12 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
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When a person is divorced, they don’t have a husband or wife.
Jesus disagrees with you:
Matthew 5:32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. And whoever shall marry the one put away commits adultery.
Mark 10:11-12 And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.
If one is committing adultery, then by definition they are already married, which means that the divorce didn't dissolve the marriage.
This concept is taught in the Old Testament as well:
Malachi 2:13-16 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit. And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. "For I hate divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously."
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 11:58:48 AM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
They Say We Have A Spouse Yet We're Unmarried
Who are they?
People like you
“I say to the UNMARRIED and widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I [the Apostle Paul] am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, LET THEM MARRY. FOR IT IS BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BURN WITH PASSION”
< Message edited by TATERBUGLETTE -- 5/12/2008 12:12:03 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 6:42:46 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1547
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
“I say to the UNMARRIED and widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I [the Apostle Paul] am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, LET THEM MARRY. FOR IT IS BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BURN WITH PASSION”
Is Paul contradicting himself?
"and if she departs, she is to remain UNMARRIED or be reconciled to her husband" (remember, this is a COMMAND from the Lord). The Lord did not give this command and then say, "but if you can't do what I commanded you, then you can disobey me because your flesh burns with passion"............ 
Paul ends his teachings with this important fact: "a woman is BOUND until her husband's death. when he dies, she is free to marry another..........if she does so BEFORE her husband's death, she will be called an adulteress" I Cor. 7:39, Rom. 7:2-3.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 11:32:56 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 841
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
They Say We Have A Spouse Yet We're Unmarried
Who are they?
People like you
“I say to the UNMARRIED and widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I [the Apostle Paul] am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, LET THEM MARRY. FOR IT IS BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BURN WITH PASSION”
That verse is referring to widowers and widows. What you first must understand when reading 1 Corinthians 7, is that it is an organized teaching where Paul discusses each circumstance and gives each command to both genders. The Greek word "agamos" or "unmarried one" there is written in the male sense, and was the proper term for widower, and in the context of being with "widows" it would have been understood as such.
As Lastblast pointed out, the woman who is "unmarried" by leaving rather than death does not have the option of remarrying, but is rather commanded to either remain alone or reconcile with her husband. On the other hand, the widower or widow is free to remarry to whom he or she wishes in the Lord, if they cannot exercise self control.
1 Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
Romans 7:2-3 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
The scripture is clear and consistent: man cannot separate what God has joined by "divorce", but death does end it and free the surviving party to marry whom they wish, as long as it is in the Lord. You must keep the different groups Paul is addressing in 1 Corinthians 7 in their proper categories, because the commandments are different for each, and if you mix them up you will come to the wrong conclusions:
Vs. 8-9 Spouses died
"Unmarried" (Widowers)
"Widows"
Vs 10-11 Married considering divorce
"Wife"
"Husband"
Vs. 12 Married with non-Christian spouse
"any brother has a wife that is an unbeliever"
"And the woman who has an unbelieving husband"
Vs. 25-38 Virgins
"if you (masculine) marry, you have not sinned"
"if a virgin (feminine) marries, she has not sinned"
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 10:37:17 AM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
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Staying in a Marriage for the Wrong Reasons
“For how do you know, O wife, whether YOU will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether YOU will save your wife?” (1Corinthians 7:16).
The implication is that we can actually continue to stay married for the wrong reasons. The emphasis here is whether YOU will save your spouse. For when we think we can do God’s job to pressure someone to become a Christian or believe the way we believe, we are in grave danger. For NO ONE can come to Jesus “unless the FATHER ...draws Him...” (John 6:44). For we can actually be trying to lead someone to the Lord and be out of God’s will because it may not be OUR place or the right time. (However, we are always to be an example of who God is, and what He stands for; not to be slaves, imprisoned by the threats and or beatings of ungodly men.)
The word “save” also means to deliver, heal, restore to proper order, or to make whole. The idea to save is often found in new marriages where one of the partners “thinks” that they can change the other or cause them to be free of some sort of problem such as drugs, rage, alcohol, or crime. But after much pain they find out it doesn’t normally work that way. It takes God to change a person’s heart and to free them from such things.
The Wuest translation put it this way: For “ONLY as the Lord has assigned to each one his lot [in life], as God has called each one, IN THAT WAY let him be ordering his manner of life...” (1Corinthians 7:17). Many have taken this Scripture to mean that the spouse that wants to walk with God is supposed to submit to the ungodliness of the other spouse. This is foolishness!
The real questions for this Scripture are, “what has the LORD assigned to each of us as our lot in life? As we walk in that assignment, how shall we order our manner of living?” The answer to both of these questions must culminate into this one thing. “Be holy, for I am holy” (1Peter 1:16).
Some have even said that if a wife for instance, is in a bad marriage, whether they’re being abused or however their husband is treating them, that that is their lot from God. This is nothing but foolishness and stupidity in its purest sense. They don’t know it’s the “...GOODNESS OF GOD [that] leads you to repentance” (Romans 2:4). An abusive type of environment in the home is just not good. A healthy home environment is brought about by seeking “...those things which are above, where Christ is...” (Colossians 3:1).
How can a person live a godly life and at the same time submit that life to someone who practices ungodliness? “For either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other...” (Matthew 6:24). You cannot love the Lord your God with all your heart while lowering and yielding yourself and your children to accept, partake and participate in things that the Lord Himself detests.
What has the Lord assigned as our lot in life? Surely it can’t be a life you hate so much you want to die to escape the pain. No! The Scriptures are so powerfully clear. Let’s take a look:
For “...we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: ‘I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE SEPARATE, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you! I will be a father to you and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty. THEREFORE, HAVING THESE PROMISES, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God” (2Corinthians 6:16b-17:1).
If that’s not powerful enough, the Scripture also says to, “Let love be without hypocrisy. ABHOR WHAT IS EVIL. CLING TO WHAT IS GOOD” (Romans 12:9).
How could you not hate evil, and truly love, at the same time? That is hypocritical love. Hypocritical love does not hate evil. It allows evil to dwell beside it in its own home. Love MUST hate evil to be true in itself. Let our love be WITHOUT hypocrisy. Otherwise, it’s not love at all, but bondage. And for one to “cling” to that which is good, one must at the same time separate from that which is evil. As we move closer to that which is good, there is always a moving away from that which is evil. TRUE LOVE ALWAYS HATES EVIL!
It says in Proverbs 3:6, “IN ALL your ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.” How can we, in all our ways acknowledge God and receive direction, if we are united to a spouse who does not want to follow God’s ways and doesn’t want us to either? The marriage will produce constant strife. God wants us to live in peace.
www.divorcehope.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 12:54:14 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1547
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: online
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Divorcehope.com is offering no REAL biblical hope. What Stephen Gola is doing is justifying disobedience and trying to repackage it to look like something approved by God. How does he do this: by twisting the Word of God to say something opposite of what is actually being said. Mr. Gola's view of marriage and divorce and the relationships which occur after a divorce are no different than how the Pharisees were treating the marriages God joined together.
He is encouraging hardheartedness to prevail and for love to fail (I Cor. 13). His message is one that is diametrically opposed to the heart of God. Sure, it satisfies the flesh and our need to SEE judgment go forth when we have been wronged. However, when compared to what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN in God's Word, Mr. Gola's words/reasonings can easily be refuted.........but many of us understand what drives him.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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