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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 1:30:16 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
If someone has married a person of his/her own choice and if that person has turned out to be cruel after the marriage, who is responsible for this?
Nice blame shifting! Is that the answer?
YES we must lay in the bed we layed in to a point, but if you didn't have the tools to make a better decision you must be burdensome with someone else's sin forever?
We are a new person in Christ, and that means we change! We see things different, we live different, we believe different. We turn from certain ways, etc. Does our pastor or Lord rub our nose in the face we didn't make that decision earlier? The Pastor might, but the Lord doesn't! Not the one that I read about in the bible and pray to!
Quite frankly the cruel spouse is responsible! That's who! No one else should be responsible for another's sin! Attempting to hand it over is sin as well!
If the cruel spouse is responsible for breaking the bond of marriage, then the other spouse has to preserve it by way of long suffering, faith and prayers. Christ never fails and forsakes us.
If the spouse concerned had taken a decision before the marriage about the person whom he/she should marry, it was his/her own decision. After the marriage, she or she should not repent of that decision but has to face the life courageously but with the help of the Lord.
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 1:58:42 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1617
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India your ideas are your own, but it is not wise to project them on others who may be in a vulnerable position.
If you would desire to stay in a relationship where a person beats and abuses you that is your business, but you have no right to encourage another person to put or keep themselves in harms way.
I hope the moderator's remove your statements that say a "spouse should endure all sufferings of an abuser."
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 2:05:30 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
The person who divorces his/her spouse is not saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. If the person concerned says that he or she is saved by the Blood of Jesus, it is a great deception and a lie.
So divorce is an unforgivable sin?
I have never said that it is an unforgiveable sin at all. I said it is an iniquity.
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 2:20:34 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
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From: India
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stonek
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
quote:
ORIGINAL: stonek
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
quote:
When is divorce an acceptable option?
Divorce is not an acceptable option. We cannot allow the iniquity of divorce to rear its ugly head in the churches of God. Let this be an acceptable option in this world. Divorce should be resisted at all costs. Even if one spouse continues in sexual sins like adultery, the other spouse should not think in terms of divorce. Even if one of the spouses is subjected to indescribable torture or cruelty, the other spouse should keep trusting God for restoration. Even if the process of restoration fails, the offended spouse should trust in God.
If one of the spouses is subjected to indescribable torture or cruelty, then the abused spouse should run for shelter and pray for God's protection. The abused spouse should seek legal protection as well and press criminal charges if applicable.
I got to tell you some things I see posted here seem far from Godly, but rather quite disturbing. 
What you say is applicable to the people of this world and not for the disciples of Jesus Christ. We have to forgive our enemies including the offending spouse who becomes inimical. We should not render evil for evil.
First of all you seem to focus on what you "think" is biblical laws and yet you don't believe in upholding the law of the land. The bible tells us we are to uphold the law of the land. In the case of abuse or indescribable torture there are laws against that and by keeping those laws does not go against any biblical laws, but rather it honors God's word.
If, someone assaults, abuses or tortures another they have broken laws and legal protection should be persued by the victim. Separating, seeking legal protection have nothing to do with forgiving an abuser. You forgive, but you don't stay in the abuse or torture.
God is Truth and Light! What you are promoting here is darkness and that is Satan, not God!
People promoting abuse and torture, then calling a victim evil for persuing help. Sounds like a cult. 
The English Law concerning crimes, civil law, evidence, etc. was generally adopted from the Old Testament sundry laws and commandments. In the case of abuse or indescribable torture, the police or the law enforcement authorities come into the picture once a crime against a woman is committed by the cruel spouse. There is nothing wrong if the aggrieved spouse goes to the court of law or the police for protection. The aggrieved spouse, if he/she is not able to bear the torture by the cruel spouse, is at a liberty to live separately. However, a believing spouse has to trust God for protection and for restoration. If the efforts of reconciliation fail or if the cruel spouse remarries another person, then the abused spouse can live separately and peacefully trusting God for maintenance. God takes care of the solitary people.
If you are a child of God forgiven through the Blood of Jesus Christ, you have to forgive your sinning/cruel spouse also. You may not be in a position to live with him/her but you can forgive him/her with the love of Christ shed in your heart through the Holy Spirit.
What do you mean by the gospel of Christ? It forgives all your sins but does not condemn you. Why should you condemn your cruel spouse? If you are a true child of God or the disciple of Jesus Christ, you will definitely forgive the offending spouse. My message does not promote the powers of darkness. It is not a cult.
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 2:35:52 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
India your ideas are your own, but it is not wise to project them on others who may be in a vulnerable position.
If you would desire to stay in a relationship where a person beats and abuses you that is your business, but you have no right to encourage another person to put or keep themselves in harms way.
I hope the moderator's remove your statements that say a "spouse should endure all sufferings of an abuser."
I am participating in a Christian website where we discuss the doctrines of Jesus Christ and the glorious gospel concerning forgiveness and redemption. My message is based on the New Testament truths. A Christian spouse, who claims to have been saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, has to endure all the sufferings in his/her life. All the sufferings need not emanate necessarily from the abusing spouse at all. I have never said that a spouse should endure all sufferings of an abuser. It seems you have added up the words "of an abuser" and then want the administrator to remove my statement!
In this regard, I can quote a number of instances from my own nation where even non-Christian wives were tortured to the point of death but the wives concerned did not seek "divorce". What is the difference between a so-called born again Christian and an unbeliever who worships idols?
The abused spouse can flee from the hands of the cruel spouse. I am not denying it. What I want to say is that the abused spouse can live separately and can seek the help of the police for protection if the need arises. But the abused spouse should not remarry during the time of separation. The period of separation may last long or may short-live.
< Message edited by prophet_india -- 8/24/2007 1:14:49 PM >
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 8:47:01 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1617
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Yes, you did say that. It is in post 751. To say that Jesus demands a spouse to endure abuse and beatings by another person is NOT biblical.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 9:54:27 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11011
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
The person who divorces his/her spouse is not saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. If the person concerned says that he or she is saved by the Blood of Jesus, it is a great deception and a lie.
So divorce is an unforgivable sin?
I have never said that it is an unforgiveable sin at all. I said it is an iniquity.
What do you think is the difference between a sin and an iniquity?
So divorce is an unforgivable iniquity?
Sounds to me like you're saying that if a spouse divorces his/her partner, they're no longer Christian, which means it's an act that God cannot forgive. So much for Christ's sacrifice being all-sufficient.
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open minded and being empty headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 10:37:26 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
Since we aren't speaking of remarriage in this thread which you seem to be implying with your caps of "remain unmarried"....that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand.
Well, since many times the discussions DO flow into each other, it is almost impossible to NOT discuss that. The fact remains that Jesus (through Paul) says that IF a woman does depart, she is to remain unmarried or be reconciled............so the PURPOSE of divorce, scripturally speaking, is NOT to dissolve what God joined together, but is merely a PHYSICAL separation, and hopefully, in such cases, the one who caused the separation will come to repentance and the marriage restored to a BETTER place.
quote:
Does God hate divorce? I'm sure we all know that he does! Does God hate violence against your spouse? Hmmm. If you take the spirit of the Word you know he does!
Yes, God hates the putting away of COVENANT spouses. Nowhere in God's Word will you find that God hates ALL divorce. He does not. To the contrary we can find instances in scripture where divorce was GOOD (but never in regards to the putting away of one who is the wife/husband of one's youth).
Does God hate violence??? Absolutely. We can find in Eph. 5 exactly how a husband/and wife are supposed to love each other----and violence against one is NOT walking in the love of God, but walking according to the sinful flesh. That's not only seen by the "Spirit" of God's Word, but can clearly be seen in the black/red writings IN the Word.
quote:
Some spouses may make changes in their lifes, so that the relationship can be restored....the odd issue is if it never does happen - which history has shown is possible - why is that so hard to accept?
I dont' not accept it. I believe that many walk the broad road to destruction. That is what Jesus taught, so with that said, we do know that many, not just abusers, will not repent of their sins and walk with the Lord----because they love their sin more than they love God. The ones who DO repent, praise the Lord!
quote:
And why the blame for that on the other spouse, "If they had just done this, that or the other" so important? Are we all not responsible for our actions and way of life?
I don't blame the other spouse at all..........the only "blame" one must take on themselves is if they disobeyed God in THEIR responses to the one who sins against them. Did they follow the Lord in how they handled the situation? This mindset must be in a Christian towards ANY kind of sin. The only "blame" I speak of is when I see the one sinned against also sinning because they disobey God in their response to HIM.
quote:
That unrepentant person has no one to blame but themselves! When they get to heaven do you seriously think God will pat them on the head and say, "I know they didn't do what they should have...your excused!" I mean COME ON! LOL!
We ALL will be held accountable for how we LOVED others and how we LOVED God.................The Lord doesn't wink at ANY sin, by the abuser, or the abused.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 10:42:10 AM
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hnt
Posts: 548
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
If someone has married a person of his/her own choice and if that person has turned out to be cruel after the marriage, who is responsible for this?
Nice blame shifting! Is that the answer?
YES we must lay in the bed we layed in to a point, but if you didn't have the tools to make a better decision you must be burdensome with someone else's sin forever?
We are a new person in Christ, and that means we change! We see things different, we live different, we believe different. We turn from certain ways, etc. Does our pastor or Lord rub our nose in the face we didn't make that decision earlier? The Pastor might, but the Lord doesn't! Not the one that I read about in the bible and pray to!
Quite frankly the cruel spouse is responsible! That's who! No one else should be responsible for another's sin! Attempting to hand it over is sin as well!
If the cruel spouse is responsible for breaking the bond of marriage, then the other spouse has to preserve it by way of long suffering, faith and prayers. Christ never fails and forsakes us.
If the spouse concerned had taken a decision before the marriage about the person whom he/she should marry, it was his/her own decision. After the marriage, she or she should not repent of that decision but has to face the life courageously but with the help of the Lord.
I'm not sure why you would question "IF" the spouse was responsible for tearing things apart with abuse. If torture happens - as you put it - they are responsible...there is no "IF"! Why are you even questioning that?
I never said it wasn't the spouses decision to marry, nor did I say anything about repenting of that decision. You leaned towards who's fault it was because of whom they choose to marry - I mentioned the spouse that is doing the torturing was at fault. You do have to deal with your decisions, but attempting to lay the blame on a victim in any way is not correct. That is called blame shifting. The one that tortured is a fault for their actions, and no one else is!
People places these black and white equals out on the table...If you do A, B, or C (leave, stay away with no contact, or possible divorce for three examples) automatically means you are not forgiving, not leaning on God for what you need, and not trusting/obeying his word. Since we can't possibly be inside the mind of this person we have no business making 'automatic' assumptions of their state. It may be your opinion that it is so, but that doesn't mean it has to be! YES people can even go as far as to say in 'most' cases...its still just opinion!
Places on this earth are different when it comes to keeping yourself safe. There are certain times in which you must do things in order to keep that safety in check. At times staying marriaged to your spouse while they decide if they plan to stay within that unrepentant spot or not just because others tell you MUST...otherwise you are labeled seems to be tempting evil to me. We are not to tempt those things. People can renew their vows as a symbol of this accomplishment at a later date. God sees circumstances, and acknowledges them...asks us not to tempt evil. At times staying married to type you speak of is opening themselves up to vulerability of great danger and harm...and not just a phyical level either. You say they must trust in God, but God says we are not to tempt evil!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:04:51 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
Yes, you did say that. It is in post 751. To say that Jesus demands a spouse to endure abuse and beatings by another person is NOT biblical.
What I have stated in post 751 is reproduced below:
quote:
If the cruel spouse is responsible for breaking the bond of marriage, then the other spouse has to preserve it by way of long suffering, faith and prayers. Christ never fails and forsakes us.
There is a glaring contrast between what I have actually stated and what you have attributed to my statement. The abused spouse has to preserve the marriage bond by way of long-suffering, faith and prayers. I have never said that a spouse has to endure abuse and beatings by another person. Please do not misquote another author if you cannot understand the meaning of his statement. Do you want the abused spouse to rush to the court of law for divorce? Do you want the abused spouse not to pray with a burden for the salvation of her/his cruel spouse? Do you want the abused faith not to believe in Jesus for restoration? Do you not agree that Christ never fails and never forsakes us? How can you say that my statement is not biblical? Please quote the Bible verses to prove how I am wrong. Please do not skip my poster without answering me.
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:21:04 AM
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hnt
Posts: 548
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
The abused spouse can flee from the hands of the cruel spouse. I am not denying it. What I want to say is that the abused spouse can live separately and can seek the help of the police for protection if the need arises. But the abused spouse should not remarry during the time of separation. The period of separation may last long or may short-live.
Again remarriage is not the theme of this thread - divorce is! Remarriage and divorce as its own thread!
Remarriage doesn't always have to come into the dicussion unless you bring it in! NO they don't have to go hand in hand either!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:30:43 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
The person who divorces his/her spouse is not saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. If the person concerned says that he or she is saved by the Blood of Jesus, it is a great deception and a lie.
So divorce is an unforgivable sin?
I have never said that it is an unforgiveable sin at all. I said it is an iniquity.
What do you think is the difference between a sin and an iniquity?
So divorce is an unforgivable iniquity?
Sounds to me like you're saying that if a spouse divorces his/her partner, they're no longer Christian, which means it's an act that God cannot forgive. So much for Christ's sacrifice being all-sufficient.
Sin means transgression of law. All unrighteousness is sin. Iniquity is on the lower side. The dictionary meaning of the word “iniquity” is “want of equity or fairness; injustice; wickedness; crime”. The spouse who divorces his/her spouse may be a Christian by name but cannot claim to have been saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. If the divorcing spouse cannot forgive the other spouse at fault, his/her claim of knowing Christ as the Savior is really doubtful. Paul is asking the Corinthians ''Examine yourselves, yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves, Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?'' A Christian witness is following the Lord bearing his/her cross denying himself/herself. It is not merely accepting Jesus Christ mentally and then denying Him through action. It is not marrying someone and then divorcing him/her. A Christian husband has to love his wife as Christ has loved the Church. A Christian wife should submit herself to her husband. These are the two cardinal truths on which a Christian marriage is pivotal. The aggrieved spouse may say, Ï have forgiven him/her. If it is the Christian forgiveness, then he/she should not think in terms of divorce. If he/she says, I have forgiven, and then proceeds to the court of law for divorce, it is nothing but sheer hypocrisy.
The sacrifice of Christ will become vain if we divorce our cruel spouses. Why do you talk of abusive spouses? There are abusive fathers or abusive mothers in this world. Does this mean that the children of these abusive parents should repudiate their relationships with their fathers or mothers?
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:34:43 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2712
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
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quote:
The sacrifice of Christ will become vain if we divorce our cruel spouses. Why do you talk of abusive spouses? There are abusive fathers or abusive mothers in this world. Does this mean that the children of these abusive parents should repudiate their relationships with their fathers or mothers?
In some cases, yes.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:36:07 AM
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zoebob
Posts: 8864
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
Status: online
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quote:
The sacrifice of Christ will become vain if we divorce our cruel spouses. Why do you talk of abusive spouses? There are abusive fathers or abusive mothers in this world. Does this mean that the children of these abusive parents should repudiate their relationships with their fathers or mothers?
In a way yes. If it is obvious a child is being abused they should be removed from their biological parents.
Also, I can forgive a person who has wronged me but it doesn't mean I need to be legally joined to them for the rest of my life. Lots of divorced couples can remain freinds after the divorce.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:36:37 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
The abused spouse can flee from the hands of the cruel spouse. I am not denying it. What I want to say is that the abused spouse can live separately and can seek the help of the police for protection if the need arises. But the abused spouse should not remarry during the time of separation. The period of separation may last long or may short-live.
Again remarriage is not the theme of this thread - divorce is! Remarriage and divorce as its own thread!
Remarriage doesn't always have to come into the dicussion unless you bring it in! NO they don't have to go hand in hand either!
Ok, I will never speak about remarriage in this thread. But I will expose the iniquity of divorce in this thread and as a soldier of Christ Jesus, I will wage a war against this great evil - a powerful weapon in the hands of the devil to destroy the Christian marriages. We have already proved in the other thread that divorce under the new covenant is not scriptural.
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:45:16 AM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
The sacrifice of Christ will become vain if we divorce our cruel spouses. Why do you talk of abusive spouses? There are abusive fathers or abusive mothers in this world. Does this mean that the children of these abusive parents should repudiate their relationships with their fathers or mothers?
In a way yes. If it is obvious a child is being abused they should be removed from their biological parents.
Yes, the child shold be removed from the custody of the abusive parents. But the relationship is there. Nobody can erase that blood relationship between the father/the mother and the child. Similarly, the relationship between the divorced husband and the divorced wife remains the same after the divorce. It is a relationship by blood.
quote:
Also, I can forgive a person who has wronged me but it doesn't mean I need to be legally joined to them for the rest of my life. Lots of divorced couples can remain freinds after the divorce.
These divorced couples, in my humble opinion, had not been really married. I think that they had been married in a casual manner - in a way similar to acting in drams or films. This means that before marriage they had treated their marriage partners as friends only. The same relationship now continues as friends after the divorce. One need not legally joined to the divorced spouse for the rest of the life but the same husband-wife relationship continues after the legal divorce. Divorce is legal but not spiritual at all. This relationship will not fly with the wind once the divorce is granted by the court of law.
Please understand the significance of a Christian marriage and a friendship.
< Message edited by prophet_india -- 8/24/2007 12:05:55 PM >
_____________________________
Wait on the Lord patiently for restoration of marriage. If you believe Him for restoration, God will make a way for you in the wilderness.
http://mychurch.org/gloryofhiscross
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 12:05:26 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
India your ideas are your own, but it is not wise to project them on others who may be in a vulnerable position.
But the abused spouse should not remarry during the time of separation. The period of separation may last long or may short-live.
How long would you say is an acceptable time for them to wait during reconciliation...A month, six months...a year...2 years?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 12:10:33 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
The abused spouse can flee from the hands of the cruel spouse. I am not denying it. What I want to say is that the abused spouse can live separately and can seek the help of the police for protection if the need arises. But the abused spouse should not remarry during the time of separation. The period of separation may last long or may short-live.
Again remarriage is not the theme of this thread - divorce is! Remarriage and divorce as its own thread!
Remarriage doesn't always have to come into the dicussion unless you bring it in! NO they don't have to go hand in hand either!
Ok, I will never speak about remarriage in this thread. But I will expose the iniquity of divorce in this thread and as a soldier of Christ Jesus, I will wage a war against this great evil - a powerful weapon in the hands of the devil to destroy the Christian marriages. We have already proved in the other thread that divorce under the new covenant is not scriptural.
Greetings,
quote:
We have already proved in the other thread that divorce under the new covenant is not scriptural.
What do you mean we? ....
Come on Prophet, you haven proved a thing in that thread...with scripture that is....
Speak the truth....!
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 12:14:44 PM
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hnt
Posts: 548
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
In this regard, I can quote a number of instances from my own nation where even non-Christian wives were tortured to the point of death but the wives concerned did not seek "divorce". What is the difference between a so-called called born again person and an unbeliever who worships idols?
The enviroments between India and the USA when it comes to torturing spouses is completely different! They way the lawmakers approach it is different, the way society as a whole views it different. Alot of things that happen within households in your nation would not be ignored here as they are in your nation. I don't think comparing the two is a very good idea! Both nations have their debits of course, but comparing cultural reasons for not leaving...and attempting to label others 'so-called' born again in that presentation doesn't win your agrument on this level.
There are alot of cultural and soceity rules that also play into WHY those ladies don't divorce their spouses! As I mentioned before there are ways that people get rid of their spouses in your country so they don't have to divorce them also! Isolation, ostersizing, etc is morally, biblically, and ethically wrong as well! Murder shouldn't be overlooked either!
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The aggrieved spouse, if he/she is not able to bear the torture by the cruel spouse, is at a liberty to live separately.
No spouses should be have to endure abuse. They shouldn't have to even deal with the thought of it, or deal with the choice to do so either! Enabling is sinful! There should be no IF they are not able to bear - they shouldn't be bearing at ALL! There are different types of suffering, and I don't think anyone mentioned that the abused spouse is the only source of life's pain and suffering! People should come out into the light of truth, and not BEAR that type of thing! You are not only allowing someone to continue in sin, but both parties aren't going to get anything of fruit allowing it to happen either! Jesus, Paul and alot of others in the bible suffered - and as we know sometimes even died for a purpose. We all know what that purpose is! Spouses BEARING such circumstances has no comparsion what so ever! The bible shows people bearing for a purpose, and the spouse in your illustration is bearing for a completely different one.
Its sad!
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h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 12:31:05 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet_india
These divorced couples, in my humble opinion, had not been really married. I think that they had been married in a casual manner - in a way similar to acting in dramas or films.
This means that before marriage they had treated their marriage partners as friends only.
The same relationship now continues as friends after the divorce. One need not legally joined to the divorced spouse for the rest of the life but the same husband-wife relationship continues after the legal divorce. Divorce is legal but not spiritual at all.
This relationship will not fly with the wind once the divorce is granted by the court of law.
Greetings
I am confused… You said that these divorced couples, in “your humble opinion”, had not been really married.
And Divorce is legal but not spiritual at all.
In other words are you saying that they were just fornicating under the image of being married by a court of Law?
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This relationship will not fly with the wind once the divorce is granted by the court of law.
If it was the same court of Law that divorced them… and that does not float in the eyes of God,
In like manner it was also the same court of Law that married them,
..I mean just because they were married by the same court of Law dose not necessarily mean that they were married in the eyes of God also… for your statements to be true…. that the relationship will not fly with the wind once the divorce is granted by the court of law… simply because there was no proof that it flew when they were married.
God knows the end from the beginning!
LG
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 12:56:08 PM
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hnt
Posts: 548
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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A Christian witness is following the Lord bearing his/her cross denying himself/herself. It is not merely accepting Jesus Christ mentally and then denying Him through action. It is not marrying someone and then divorcing him/her. A Christian husband has to love his wife as Christ has loved the Church. A Christian wife should submit herself to her husband. These are the two cardinal truths on which a Christian marriage is pivotal. The aggrieved spouse may say, Ï have forgiven him/her. If it is the Christian forgiveness, then he/she should not think in terms of divorce. If he/she says, I have forgiven, and then proceeds to the court of law for divorce, it is nothing but sheer hypocrisy.
The sacrifice of Christ will become vain if we divorce our cruel spouses. Why do you talk of abusive spouses? There are abusive fathers or abusive mothers in this world. Does this mean that the children of these abusive parents should repudiate their relationships with their fathers or mothers?
Divorcing doesn't equal non forgiveness, or a slap in the slap of that concept. If you view it as hypocrisy - that's fine...but that is opinion not fact! Most abused spouses struggle with divorce, and the whole concept of it. Alot of times they are forced to do this to protect themselves and their children, family, and futures! There are alot of realms in which they are seeking protection, and not all states offer separation and states differ as to what protections you are allowed if you remain married.
Some children will have to abandon their relationships with their abusive parents...YES! That doesn't mean they can't honor them as their parents. It doesn't mean they don't forgive, and it doesn't mean they have stopped praying for them. MOST would love the reconcilation, but that is up to the parents to make that happen! Some relationships may just continue to be somewhat distant...you just never know life is custom!
Placing opinions out there with no backup to circumstances is what I call a slap in the face for faith. There may not be any GOOD way of dealing with it, but you must take the best course of action for your own protection and those that you are responsible for.
I think what I see in most cases is people forgetting about the 'trust' factor! YES we are commanded to forgive and pray for those that hurt us, but no where in the bible are you commanded to trust them in the sense that I'm feeling in this thread. You may always long for the reconcilation, long for the love and fruitful relationship, and long for the day they are repentant and turn from their evil! Keeping your distance because of the trust issue isn't non forgiveness in the sense that others need it equal to. We are to avoid evil, and at times we can feel that in the trust aspects of our lifes. The abusing person must learn to deal with those consquences, and figure out ways of regaining that...unfortunatley alot of them and others seem to think using manipuation and denial is the best course of action. THAT happens in most cases!
If you are staying married to an abuser, and ignoring what protections you may have while they turn their lifes around because people tell you that you are slap in the face to faith if you don't...they aren't thinking of the people within the marriage. They are to busy trying to own image that is clearly not working, but harming in some cases. If your circumstances are different - than approach it different! My point is more legal protections than it is in other areas. You can wait for them to turn around even if you are forced to take that legal avenue. Enduring extra hardship, and throwing away secure futures because of the words of others stating you MUST to show faith ... seems like tempting evil which isn't something we are asked to do. I think that has more to do with peer pressure from others within the faith than it has to do with anything else. Does abuse always have to end in divorce? Nope! I don't believe that that it has to!
I don't think there is ONE avenue that is right for everyone! We all have our different paths, and directions. We must look at all the cards available, pray on the them, and decide and move forward. If others say that is a slap in the face....let them! They have a right to that opinion, but it sure doesn't make it the correct one!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 1:08:26 PM
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prophet_india
Posts: 440
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: India
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
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ORIGINAL: prophet_india
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ORIGINAL: buckifn
India your ideas are your own, but it is not wise to project them on others who may be in a vulnerable position. | | |
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