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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/8/2005 10:10:21 PM
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catherwood
Posts: 49
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Err....just quickly in addition...'God is not mocked...You reap what you sow.' Galatians 6. Do you think that the Lord isn't going to avenge the blood of those 42 million murdered babies that cries up to Him from landfills all across this country of ours? This is not a time for the church to be congratulating itself, I would say.
God bless, keep, lead and guard you in Christ,
Catherwood
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/9/2005 9:04:14 AM
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charityagape
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cisco Texas
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quote:
Sorry...I am correct in what I am saying.
Sorry.... you're not.
_____________________________
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/9/2005 2:47:47 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AQuietPlace
catherwood said: Jesus spoke about hell often. It was a deep concern of his.
Actually hell is mentioned a grand total of 14 times in all the gospels, and only related to just 4 different points: [1] Anyone angry with his brother…is guilty enough to go to hell [2] If your right eye/hand cause you to stumble…it is better to lose one part of your body than your whole body…into hell. [3] Do not fear those who kill…but rather fear Him who is able to destroy body and soul in hell [4] Woe to you who makes one proselyte and then makes him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
By contrast, love is mentioned 43 times, forgive is mentioned 17 times, pray/prayer is mentioned 31 times. Hell is at the bottom of this short list. If we consider frequency of mention, it seems that Jesus was more concerned about other things.
Jesus said: Love your neighbor as yourself. Our neighbors’ won’t be getting much love if we think very little of ourselves. And on the cross, in the midst of his suffering, Jesus said: Father, forgive them. He didn’t say: I hope you guys know you’re going to hell; you had better repent.
AQuietPlace,
Therein lies a great portion of error for those who espouse the severely watered down Christian world view, as does this Joel Osteen and others like him.
While Jesus didn’t say verbatim quote:
“I hope you guys know you’re going to hell; you had better repent.” , you and others who espouse this view are in danger of entering by the wide gate, “for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.”(Matt 7:13)
While “hell” isn’t mentioned more than say 25 times in the entire NT, “sin” (in its various forms) is mentioned at least 270 times. Sure Jesus didn’t say, quote:
“I hope you guys know you’re going to hell; you had better repent.” , but below is just a sampling of what He did say:
Matt 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luke 13:1-5
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 17:3
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 22:13-14
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Matt 24:46-51
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Luke 13:23-28
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
John 3:18-19
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Emphasis mine for the sake of this post)
I have yet to hear any such teaching emphasized or even mentioned by these “prosperity” teachers, including Joel Osteen. The emphasis rather is abundance in THIS life (aka sowing to the flesh), which is in direct contradiction to the teachings of scripture.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/14/2005 5:36:37 AM
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grizzly_bear
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I wonder how many people posting on this thread have ever attended a service or meeting of Osteen's in person? Well, I have. I attended his church for the better part of two years when I lived in that city. It was where I made the commitment to rededicate my life to Christ and learned a tremendous amount about what it means to live the Christian life, walk in love, forgiveness and integrity.
What attracted me to Osteen was that his teachings are both practical and positive. He doesn't teach that the Christian life is a bed of roses, but he does teach that God is good and has given us what we need to be victorious. As someone who was away from faith altogether and had been badly burned in other churches, I needed a message of hope that I could apply to my life. Most of Osteen's Sunday messages -- the ones that are televised -- are simple, practical and structured in such a way that anyone off the street can understand them and find a point of application. Sure, they may be a little shallow for long-time Christians who know the Bible very well, but the church offers an abundance of deeper studies and such.
Osteen doesn't spent a lot of time telling people they are going to hell (like John Hagee), because most people already know that. What they need is to realize that God loves them and has a better plan for their life.
I have never heard Osteen or any of the other pastors there teach something I radically disagreed with. And the freedom from politics was refershing, to say the least.
Joel is being greatly used in the kingdom of God and leading many people toward eternal life, not the other way.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/14/2005 12:38:39 PM
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charityagape
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cisco Texas
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Amen.
_____________________________
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/14/2005 8:15:33 PM
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RichInChrist
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Paul the Apostle clearly put the WOF into practice as he confessed getting the best jail cell, the best chains, the softest cord for his scourgings, the smothest stones for his stonings, the best deck chair during his ship wrecks, etc. Did Paul glory in the stuff of this world? Hardly. Did he glory in Christ? Immensly. The death of Christ was at work in Paul, but the resurrection of Christ was also at work, and that is all Paul cared about.
Is Joel confessing that he will have a better reward in heaven than Paul? I imagine. Is he deceived in thinking it will happen? No doubt. Paul taught that to share the glory of Christ we must be willing to share the sufferings. No WOF teacher would ever confess to that, which is why I won't be seeing them get preferential seating in heaven and Christ's kingdom, no matter how many first class accomodations they confessed themselves into here on earth.
Rich
Edited for typos.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/14/2005 10:17:49 PM
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charityagape
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cisco Texas
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You know Rich that post has nothing to do with Joel Osteen, it doesn't even truly reflect WOF. Its just a bitter diatribe on whoa is me whoa is me I'm holier than thee.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/15/2005 12:49:48 AM
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RichInChrist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: charityagape
You know Rich that post has nothing to do with Joel Osteen, it doesn't even truly reflect WOF. Its just a bitter diatribe on whoa is me whoa is me I'm holier than thee.
I agree my post has nothing to do with Joel Osteen or WOF. Which is why I want nothing to do with either. A key characteristic of false teaching is flattery of the hearer.
My post has to do with the Apostle Paul and what sort of testimony for Christ his life gave. If you think that my mentioning it constitutes a diatribe and requires a bitter heart, then please bring that up with God in your prayers for me. I would appreciate it if He would enlighten me further as to why the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to included the subject of Paul's sufferings as a matter for Paul and followers of Christ to glory in and adopt as an example in every single letter that he wrote.
Rich
< Message edited by RichInChrist -- 5/15/2005 1:00:25 AM >
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/16/2005 11:53:49 AM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichInChrist
Paul taught that to share the glory of Christ we must be willing to share the sufferings. No WOF teacher would ever confess to that....
Here in lies the main problem. I caught his show over the weekend and again the majority of this fellow’s “message” is bent on humanistic self-propulsion (“Rising above your circumstances” was the theme.).. Sure, there’s the occasional mention of prayer, and the even rarer mention of scripture. When any shred of scripture is included it’s quite often out of context. This past weekend he didn’t even bother to quote the scripture out of context, but rather “referred” to it. The passage was:2 Cor 4:18 “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.”
He only a small portion of this verse, which is often his practice. The gist of what he was saying was if you basically learn to think and act a certain way that God would change your circumstances. That they would only be temporary.
Interesting that the passage to which he referred is part of a larger passage that speaks of affliction in the Christian life.
Much of what he preaches can be true, but the underlying motive for behaving a certain way (according to Joel) is so a person can get or have a better life here on earth as opposed to living in obedience to God so that God is glorified and so the TRUE gospel of Salvation can be preached with power.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/16/2005 7:48:57 PM
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cjwpastor
Posts: 502
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Soxfan,
I would be far more in agreement with you if your screen name did not remind me of a 4 game sweep to my beloved Cards. 
When people ask my opinion of Osteen, I usually tell them that as long as they are listening to him in order to be a better saleperson of mutual funds or real estate or whatever, and that they are getting the Word of God elsewhere, from a more reputable source, than so be it. This is the lesser of two evils, IMO, and far better than the person who's only spiritual "growth" is done by reading, watching or sitting under Osteen's teaching (or 99% of everyone else on TBN). If you see him as nothing more than a Dr. Phil, Oprah or Napolean Hill or Anthony Robbins, than the damage he can do is limited.
This does not excuse him, however. I find it deplorable that he and anyone like him uses the name of Jesus for profit and waters down the Gospel to nothing more than pop-psychology. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not this weeks "feel good about yourself" message. It is the message of redemption and reconciliation with the Almighty and Holy God who requires us to "lose our life that we might live" and to "pick up our cross daily" to follow Him.
God bless,
Chad
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/17/2005 5:19:05 AM
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grizzly_bear
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/12/2005
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You know it sounds like some people here must actual pray for trials and suffering to come upon them. That would be interesting to listen to. The truth is we ALL face suffering and trials. We don't have to ask God for them; we ask God to get us through them.
If you listen to Mr. Osteen's messages, they are very practical and dealing with real-life situations and real answers that WORK. (I could give dozens of testimonies on that subject.) So, if you wish to poor, sick and miserable, God isn't going to stop you. But how does that bring God glory?
You know I get the strangest feeling that some people are actually jealous of Joel because he's young, healthy, attractive, successful, wealthy, popular, has a trophy spouse (who is also a really sweet person) and is really a nice person.
Anybody here ever read the book "The Prayer of Jabez" by Bruce Wilkerson? In fact, anybody ever read many of the prayers in Psalms?
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/17/2005 10:34:43 AM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: grizzly_bear
Anybody here ever read the book "The Prayer of Jabez" by Bruce Wilkerson? In fact, anybody ever read many of the prayers in Psalms?
Speaking of Psalms, here are some that you’re NOT likely to hear about on the Joel Show:
Ps 6:6-10
6 I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.
7 Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies.
8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
9 The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD will receive my prayer.
10 Let all mine enemies be ashamed and sore vexed: let them return and be ashamed suddenly.
Ps 39:11-13
11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity, thou makest his beauty to consume away like a moth: surely every man is vanity. Selah.
12 Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear unto my cry; hold not thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were.
13 O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more.
Ps 42:3-7
3 My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?
4 When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.
5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.
6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.
7 Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.
This would be considered “negative thinking” on the Joel Show.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/17/2005 2:51:43 PM
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charityagape
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cisco Texas
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Wow, maybe I should be looking around for God and His baseball bat, the one he evidently wants to hit me over the head with.
Its the Good News, people. Not the I'm gonna get you News.
_____________________________
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/17/2005 3:04:07 PM
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charityagape
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cisco Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
Ps 6:6-10
6 I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.
7 Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies.
8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
9 The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD will receive my prayer.
10 Let all mine enemies be ashamed and sore vexed: let them return and be ashamed suddenly.
First Part of that Psalm is asking for God's mercy, for God's help in his time of trouble. When you live in this world its a given that trouble will come to you, but the Good News is what gets you through it.
1 To the Chief Musician. With stringed instruments. On an eight-stringed harp. F5 A Psalm of David. O Lord, do not rebuke me in Your anger, Nor chasten me in Your hot displeasure. 2 Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak; O Lord, heal me, for my bones are troubled. 3 My soul also is greatly troubled; But You, O Lord--how long? 4 Return, O Lord, deliver me! Oh, save me for Your mercies' sake! 5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will give You thanks?
quote:
Ps 39:11-13
11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity, thou makest his beauty to consume away like a moth: surely every man is vanity. Selah.
12 Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear unto my cry; hold not thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were.
13 O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more.
1 For Jeduthun, the choir director: A psalm of David. I said to myself, "I will watch what I do and not sin in what I say. I will curb my tongue when the ungodly are around me." 2 But as I stood there in silence – not even speaking of good things – the turmoil within me grew to the bursting point. 3 My thoughts grew hot within me and began to burn, igniting a fire of words: 4 "LORD, remind me how brief my time on earth will be. Remind me that my days are numbered, and that my life is fleeing away. 5 My life is no longer than the width of my hand. An entire lifetime is just a moment to you; human existence is but a breath." Interlude 6 We are merely moving shadows, and all our busy rushing ends in nothing. We heap up wealth for someone else to spend.
7 And so, Lord, where do I put my hope? My only hope is in you. 8 Rescue me from my rebellion, for even fools mock me when I rebel. 9 I am silent before you; I won't say a word. For my punishment is from you. 10 Please, don't punish me anymore! I am exhausted by the blows from your hand.
It appears here David is suffering from his own rebellion.
quote:
Ps 42:3-7
3 My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?
4 When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.
5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.
6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.
7 Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.
1 For the choir director: A psalm of the descendants of Korah. As the deer pants for streams of water, so I long for you, O God. 2 I thirst for God, the living God. When can I come and stand before him? 3 Day and night, I have only tears for food, while my enemies continually taunt me, saying, "Where is this God of yours?" 4 My heart is breaking as I remember how it used to be: I walked among the crowds of worshipers, leading a great procession to the house of God, singing for joy and giving thanks – it was the sound of a great celebration! 5 Why am I discouraged? Why so sad? I will put my hope in God! I will praise him again – my Savior and
6 my God! Now I am deeply discouraged, but I will remember your kindness – from Mount Hermon, the source of the Jordan, from the land of Mount Mizar. 7 I hear the tumult of the raging seas as your waves and surging tides sweep over me. 8 Through each day the LORD pours his unfailing love upon me, and through each night I sing his songs, praying to God who gives me life. 9 "O God my rock," I cry, "Why have you forsaken me? Why must I wander in darkness, oppressed by my enemies?" 10 Their taunts pierce me like a fatal wound. They scoff, "Where is this God of yours?" 11 Why am I discouraged? Why so sad? I will put my hope in God! I will praise him again – my Savior and my God!
This would be considered “negative thinking” on the Joel Show.
_____________________________
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/17/2005 3:26:43 PM
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cjwpastor
Posts: 502
Joined: 4/27/2005
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I believe that point is not to slide into one extreme and live a completely ascetic and dead life nor to be in the other extreme and treat God as a "blessing vending machine". Both are wrong and both do not feed off of the whole counsel of God.
In relation to Osteen, his "show" is one that focuses too much on one side, often times pulling texts out of context in order to make a psychological point, rather than a Scriptural one.
In good homelitics courses, you learn the need for powerful expository preaching. The best preaching is that which lets the text guide what you say, rather than finding a text to support what you want to say. Any good sermon will address a "fallen condition focus(FCF)" which means it will speak to the need for grace in our lives because man is fallen and in need of a Savior. The main task of preaching is to speak the Word of God and its purpose is for Redemption. In this, I find Osteen sorely lacking and hesitate to even call him a "pastor."
There must be balance.
God bless,
Chad
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/17/2005 3:29:12 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cjwpastor
I believe that point is not to slide into one extreme and live a completely ascetic and dead life nor to be in the other extreme and treat God as a "blessing vending machine". Both are wrong and both do not feed off of the whole counsel of God.
In relation to Osteen, his "show" is one that focuses too much on one side, often times pulling texts out of context in order to make a psychological point, rather than a Scriptural one.
In good homelitics courses, you learn the need for powerful expository preaching. The best preaching is that which lets the text guide what you say, rather than finding a text to support what you want to say. Any good sermon will address a "fallen condition focus(FCF)" which means it will speak to the need for grace in our lives because man is fallen and in need of a Savior. The main task of preaching is to speak the Word of God and its purpose is for Redemption. In this, I find Osteen sorely lacking and hesitate to even call him a "pastor."
There must be balance.
God bless,
Chad
Well-said.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/17/2005 10:04:48 PM
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grizzly_bear
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Ok, fine, maybe he's more psycholgist than preacher. Whatever he is, he's a pretty darn good one.
I admit if I'm looking for a Bible study, he's not my man (although his brother and sister, who preach on Wednesday nights are pretty amazing in that regard). Joel is a motivator, an encourager. That's just how he is. Nothing wrong with that for me. He's practical and helps people deal with real issues in their lives.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/18/2005 10:25:26 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1504
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: grizzly_bear
He's practical and helps people deal with real issues in their lives.
How does he do that? By twisting Scripture to fit his "feel good", God owes you everything, type of doctrine. Actually, it's hard to call it Doctrine, since that would imply he actually adheres to Scripture.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/18/2005 3:47:22 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: grizzly_bear
He's practical and helps people deal with real issues in their lives.
How does he do that? By twisting Scripture to fit his "feel good", God owes you everything, type of doctrine. Actually, it's hard to call it Doctrine, since that would imply he actually adheres to Scripture.
2 Tim 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/18/2005 11:52:46 PM
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AQuietPlace
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Joined: 4/16/2005
From: southeast USA
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I've read many posts in which one person hears Osteen saying one thing and another poster hears something very different from him. Maybe it would be interesting for us all to listen to one of the five sermons on his site (free access if you scroll down on the web page you'll see them at http://www.lakewood.cc/a_v_library.htm ) because we could replay it as often as we want for clarity and we could all refer to the same one and the same words to make our points. Since his ministry obviously is touching many people and many people are also reading these posts of possibly being influenced, it might show more care and caution if we take the approach I'm suggesting or some other such approach. For example, I remember hearing someone say that he never talks about Hell. Well, in one of those sermons (I'm pretty sure it's in one of the first two), Hell comes up, though I can't remember just how. So some things are being said that are not truthful, and that is certainly not a scriptural approach to a Christian brother, not to mention leader. But, if we all listened to one of those easily available sermons, we could perhaps have a clearer discussion of actual specific points. Just a thought.
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Zephaniah 3.17
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/19/2005 2:08:22 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2929
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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I wish they were written as well. One of my kids totally anhilated the sound on my system. I've got to do some pd and fix it, but frankly, I'm too lazy to mess with it right now. So does anyone know where some written sermons are? I keep hearing a lot about this guy from people around here where I live. That's my motivation in wanting to see his stuff.
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/19/2005 2:19:29 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2929
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Nevermind. I found them. Here's a list below. I'm willing to read five.
I'm starting with the ones I've highlighted:
CHRIST & SALVATION
WHAT THE RESURRECTION MEANS TO US AS BELIEVERS
THE TRUTH OF THE RESURRECTION
EVANGELISM
THE GREAT COMMISSION
FAITH
BELIEVE GOD FOR THE GREATER WORKS
BATTLE OF THE MIND
1 WINNING THE BATTLE OF THE MIND
2 WINNING THE BATTLE OF THE MIND
3 WINNING THE BATTLE OF THE MIND
4 WINNING THE BATTLE OF THE MIND
5 DON'T WORRY OR FEAR; TRUST GOD
6 NO CONDEMNATION
7 THREE THINGS TO DO TO NOT FAINT
8 WINNING THE BATTLE OF THE MIND
9 GOD'S BEST PATH FOR OUR LIVES
10 WINNING THE BATTLE OF THE MIND
11 YOUR IMAGINATION
ENLARGE YOUR VISION
1 ENLARGE YOUR VISION
2 ENLARGE YOUR VISION
HOLD ONTO YOUR DREAMS
1 HOLDING ONTO YOUR DREAMS PART I
2 PERSISTENCE & DETERMINATION
3 FIRST KINGS 6
4 TO LEARN IN THE DARK HOURS
5 THREE THINGS TO DO IN THE MIDST OF TROUBLE
6 DON'T LIMIT GOD
7 THE VOICE OF DISCOURAGEMENT
8 DO ALL YOU CAN DO TO MAKE YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE
VICTORIOUS LIVING
1 NEVER LOSE YOUR HOPE
2 JEHOSHAPHAT AND THE PEOPLE OF JUDAH
3 LIVING A LIFE OF FORGIVENESS
4 LIVING A LIFE OF UNCONDITIONAL LOVE
5 KEEPING THE RIGHT PERSPECTIVE OF PROBLEMS
6 LIVING A LIFE OF EXCELLENCE
7 GUARDING YOUR THOUGHTS
8 DEVELOPING YOUR POTENTIAL
Okay, I threw in a sixth one. 
Here's the link to the list:
http://www.lakewood.cc/sermon_listing.htm#
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/19/2005 5:22:21 AM
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grizzly_bear
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Bottom line is that each of us has free will and choses what we beleive. If you chose to beleive that God is mean and judgemental, no one is going to stop you. I believed that for a lot of years and made my life miserable.
If, on the other hand, you chose to believe that God is loving, forgiving and merciful and eager to bless you, you will live accordingly. God is much better than any of us could imagine, and it is difficult to see all sides at once. So which side do you want to dwell on? I choose the goodness of God.
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RE: Joel Osteen? - 5/19/2005 7:09:16 AM
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cjwpastor
Posts: 502
Joined: 4/27/2005
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Grizzly,
It is not necessary to be either/or. The issue is over-emphasis of one thing, and in Osteen's case, it is prosperity and/or blessings. When you study how heresies arose in the early church, it becomes apparant that one of the main ways they did was an over emphasis of one thing (a verse, a doctrine, a belief, etc.). You don't have to believe God is mean and judgmental just because you think Osteen is on the wrong path, nor do you have to believe that God doesn't want to bless you just because you call WoF or the prosperity gospel heresy.
Bzirk-
Thank you for listing those sermons titles. I think that just reading the titles alone is enough to show where his emphasis is.
Chad
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