|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/13/2008 8:04:18 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
|
Oprah speaks words of hope and comfort into people everyday - doesn't mean she is preaching truth that leads to eternal life.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/13/2008 5:58:14 PM
|
|
|
AllForIsrael
Posts: 155
Joined: 3/1/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
somewhere in his ministry he'll need to add meat to the menu
So far all you got is bone.
_____________________________
http://forensictheology.smfnew.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/14/2008 1:45:56 PM
|
|
|
Soxfan
Posts: 1496
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
|
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5585511.html
On March 2, Bill Clinton was cheered wildly at Joel Osteen’s Church in Houston as he stumped for his wife.
Way to go Joel!
Invite an unrepentent adulterer and rapist to stump for his Socialist baby-killing advocate wife
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/14/2008 3:59:43 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
ROFL.
Looks JO got rid of the evidence.
It said that article isn't available.
But, that brings up one of my big pet peeves.
We can't read a Bible in public places, pray in public
places, observe religious holidays (right or wrong) in
public places, but where do the "politicians" run to
when campaigning? For the big church pulpits.
We're a small church, but if I had a mega-mega church,
there would never be a "politician" stand in my pulpit,
unless it was to give testimony how Jesus became their
Saviour and Lord, and campaigning would be forbidden.
No wonder it says that the very elect will be deceived.
Funny all candidates running for office "claim" to be christian,
but their voting records and campaign speeches says the exact
opposite.
Judgment begins at the "house of God", not with the sinners, so
we had better wake up.
Okay, I put my soapbox in storage. lol.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/14/2008 6:46:47 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5585511.html
On March 2, Bill Clinton was cheered wildly at Joel Osteen’s Church in Houston as he stumped for his wife.
Way to go Joel!
Invite an unrepentent adulterer and rapist to stump for his Socialist baby-killing advocate wife
Wow - and apart from the truths you presented about why it is not right to have Bill Clinton at a pulpit... the real problem is that Lakewood Church should immediately lose their tax exempt status.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/28/2008 4:37:28 PM
|
|
|
drcain
Posts: 170
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX.
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AllForIsrael
quote:
somewhere in his ministry he'll need to add meat to the menu
So far all you got is bone.
LOL, you forgot to add a "D" to the word bone.
_____________________________
David
What? Me worry?
Matthew 6:34
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/28/2008 4:58:56 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 2003
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
Politics and the church??? Did I stumble into the Tony Campolo thread?
_____________________________
-Ben-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 3/28/2008 6:11:03 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
LOL.
Is there a difference?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/22/2008 5:43:00 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
|
quote:
Osteen I believe is probably the first of many WOF devotee’s who has melded the successful marketing techniques of the seeker-sensitive mega-churches with their positive confession health & wealth message. The blend becomes a potent hybrid that appeals to both sign-gift believers (sort of “charismatic lite”) and baby-boomer seekers.
The message that God wants to bless His children with complete physical health, to give them great financial wealth and to demand little of them regarding their spiritual life is a highly appealing message. When you combine this with well known Gospel singers, highly orchestrated praise and worship teams in a decidedly non-church atmosphere it will appeal to even a wider audience.
We cannot forget to mix in the vast television footprint that Lakewood church promotes, along with its web site, daddy John Osteen’s books are still in almost all Christian bookstores so it is not difficult to understand how it can gather 30,000 people in Lakewood ’s rented 16,000 seat arena, formerly the home of the Houston Rockets.
What saddens me the most is that one hears little, if any, Law & Gospel proclaimed by Joel at Lakewood Church . To quote something I remember hearing “dad” Hagin say: “how do you poison a dog? You put the poison in with the good meat.” I do not want to press the analogy too far but the reality is that 30,000 people are not being biblically fed a balanced spiritual diet that will promote true growth in their lives. What you do hear is a synthesis of WOF concepts wrapped up in a seeker-friendly environment by a young man with a winsome smile.
Lastly, we cannot lose sight of the fact that a certain synergy builds with any church when it begins to reach such a size. People, who have no solid doctrinal foundation, will want to attend the place where “something” is happening (throw in a coffee bar, ice rink and gym does not hurt either). In America , bigger is better. After all, many posit, if Joel was not being used of the Lord then why would God allow all these people to come to Lakewood church?
Could it be a sign of God’s judgment on His people who have forsaken His ways? Often we think of God’s judgment as some divine catastrophe, yet often, and just as catastrophic, is when He simply allows people to have own way. I believe the words of Jeremiah are applicable to many in the Church today: Jer 2:12-13
Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD. For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
As much as Joel no doubt believes the growth they’ve experienced is due to the blessing of God it really boils down to three simple things, which have nothing to do with God at all: (1) his father’s legacy and an already existing mega-church; (2) Joel’s slick marketing abilities; (3) a biblically errant, but hugely popular message which appeals to the masses seeking to have their ears tickled and experience a “good time” in church.
Please pray for Joel Osteen, like it or not, he currently has a tremendous impact on many people. Pray the Lord open his eyes to biblical truth and may he take as bold a stand to expose error. - Rev. Liichow
========
Very interesting read.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/22/2008 7:03:16 PM
|
|
|
gmc4Jesus
Posts: 222
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
Status: offline
|
Joel Olsteen, Another effective man of God.
I hope that the readers will not get bogged down in tearing down another servant of God. Just like the Pharisees and Sadducees fueding with each other, we sometimes waste more time bashing, criticizing and condemning one another than we do in trying to reach the lost.
I have listened to several of Joel's messages and am yet to find anything doctrinally wrong with his approach to the Gospel. He is uplifting and encouraging. He is passionately committed to Jesus Christ as the Son of God and our Lord and Savior as anyone else that I have listened to, including some that I am less enthralled with personally.
We should be very careful in what we say about someone who is anointed by God. As we see with Benny Hinn, Jack Hayford, John McCarthur, Billy Graham, Robert Schueller, Paul Crouch, Hank Hannagraph, John Hagee, Jesse Duplantis and many others, God uses many different styles to communicate His Gospel to His people.
Joel Olsteen's message connects with people. From the early days of the Old Testament to today, we want hope. Joel does not compromise the teachings of the Gospel in presenting that hope to his audience.
Some preachers will preach fire and brimstone. Some will preach "seeker sensitive" messages. God can use all to communicate His word.
May God guide and bless you as you seek to advance the Gospel in the ways He has given you to do it. Pray for Joel, John, Jack and all of the others who are proclaiming the Gospel, that God will bless their ministries in the way He has called them to do it and that people will respond and come to faith in Christ through the message they preach.
Edited TOS 13
< Message edited by Kath -- 4/23/2008 1:29:33 AM >
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/22/2008 7:06:07 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
|
Joel Osteen preaches a God that he says is the same Mormons worship.
Joel Osteen preaches a Jesus that did not atone for sin on the cross.
And the list goes on and on and on...
Sorry, but I don't see how he can be an effective man of God when the God/Jesus he preaches are not those revealed in the Bible.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/22/2008 7:27:15 PM
|
|
|
gmc4Jesus
Posts: 222
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
Status: offline
|
I know from my own years in preaching ministry that I didn't always have all of my doctrinal ducks in the right row. From that perspective, I can see that Joel may not be well informed on some issues that you and I would agree are Scripturally important.
I find it hard to perceive that he doesn't acknowledge Jesus atoning for sin. I have not observed that.
Joel has not gone to Seminary, where he might have been informed on those issues. He is still growing in his walk as you and I are still growing in ours.
Regardless of the imperfections of his doctrine, he is communicating a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
He is effectively drawing thousands, if not millions, to believe in and worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God. He is standing for the Bible as the authoritative Word of God. He is growing in his knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures. He is as imperfect in his ministry as you and I and anyone else.
The best thing to do, unless you are close enough to him to sit down and study the Bible together, is to pray that God will guide and bless you in your ministry.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/22/2008 7:37:29 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2544
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
quote:
Joel has not gone to Seminary, where he might have been informed on those issues. He is still growing in his walk as you and I are still growing in ours.
If anyone is still growing and is not able to proclaim the solid word, he has no business being an elder, much less a pastor.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/22/2008 7:43:53 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
I know from my own years in preaching ministry that I didn't always have all of my doctrinal ducks in the right row. From that perspective, I can see that Joel may not be well informed on some issues that you and I would agree are Scripturally important.
Anyone that preaches the Word is held to a higher standard than the average pew warmer, per se. We're not talking about having a perfect understanding of all of the Word of God (that is not possible in our current flesh), but it is not extraordinary to expect a Christian preacher to adhere to sound doctrine, to the core essentials of Christianity.
To what separates biblical Christianity from the kingdom of the cults.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
I find it hard to perceive that he doesn't acknowledge Jesus atoning for sin. I have not observed that.
And I see you haven't read this thread either - in it you will find a plethora of video, audio, written documentation that more than details what I and many others have shared.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Joel has not gone to Seminary, where he might have been informed on those issues. He is still growing in his walk as you and I are still growing in ours.
And yet he is called to be America's Pastor - who adheres to heretical Word of Faith beliefs, says Mormons are Christians, Jesus had to speak "words of faith" to get out of Hell, etc etc..
Anyone that is in need of growing the basics of the Word/Faith should not be a pastor, or an elder.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Regardless of the imperfections of his doctrine, he is communicating a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
How? Please tell me how he is doing that when none of his sermons outline the basic Gospel message. And I know Joel personally, have broken bread with him, have sat in commitee meetings with him and his staff, etc..
How can we say he does what you said when he never preaches a basic Gospel message of sin, need of God's grace, repentance, etc?
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
He is effectively drawing thousands, if not millions, to believe in and worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
He is drawing thousands to positive thinking and a "Me" centered gospel that is not the Gospel of the Bible.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
He is standing for the Bible as the authoritative Word of God. He is growing in his knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures. He is as imperfect in his ministry as you and I and anyone else.
The best thing to do, unless you are close enough to him to sit down and study the Bible together, is to pray that God will guide and bless you in your ministry.
I pray that God will:
a) open the eyes of those that pay heed to him for spiritual truth
&
b) open his own eyes, convict him of the heretical teachings he holds to and uses his position to preach sound doctrine.
I recommend you check out the documentation found in this thread, it contains hundreds of hours of study and work from concerned brothers and sisters in the Lord.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/22/2008 9:41:26 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 361
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Joel has not gone to Seminary, where he might have been informed on those issues. He is still growing in his walk as you and I are still growing in ours.
i have not been to seminary and i know the Lord atoned for me sins....
basic doctrines, no?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 1:39:39 PM
|
|
|
SweetPea83
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
We should be very careful in what we say about someone who is anointed by God. As we see with Benny Hinn, Jack Hayford, John McCarthur, Billy Graham, Robert Schueller, Paul Crouch, Hank Hannagraph, John Hagee, Jesse Duplantis and many others, God uses many different styles to communicate His Gospel to His people.
Some preachers will preach fire and brimstone. Some will preach "seeker sensitive" messages. God can use all to communicate His word.
May God guide and bless you as you seek to advance the Gospel in the ways He has given you to do it. Pray for Joel, John, Jack and all of the others who are proclaiming the Gospel, that God will bless their ministries in the way He has called them to do it and that people will respond and come to faith in Christ through the message they preach.
Edited TOS 13
Very good post, gmc4Jesus! Amen to the fact that "we should pray that God will bless their ministries in the way He has called them to do it...."
< Message edited by SweetPea83 -- 4/23/2008 1:47:47 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 1:43:28 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea83
Very good post, gmc4Jesus! We need to pray for these preachers and not tear them down. While we may not agree with each and everyone of them 100% or their style or delivery of the message, they are reaching somebody ....somewhere who needs to be reached. God knows this. He knows what sort of preaching style will get someone's attention.
Joel Osteen preaches a God that he says is the same Mormons worship.
Joel Osteen preaches a Jesus that did not atone for sin on the cross.
And the list goes on and on and on...
How can someone preaching a false jesus, a false god be able to share the true Gospel of the Bible with anyone?
This is not an issue of style, delivery, mannerisms, nor of preference - but of the VERY nature of who God is and what Jesus accomplished on the cross. Of who Jesus is and who Joel says He is.
We are called to name names of those preaching a false gospel under the guise of biblical Christianity. To warn the brethren and the innocents that do not know.
It's not the politically correct thing to do. Nor the most comfortable thing to do. But it is the biblically correct thing to do.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 2:32:12 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
...I find it hard to perceive that he doesn't acknowledge Jesus atoning for sin. I have not observed that....
When asked to share his testimony about his own conversion, Joel said he didn't have one because he has always been a Christian.
There's no reason under heaven that the man should be that ignorant about the faith, especially if he'd half listened to his own father's sermons now and again.
If I knew nothing else about the man, that's enough for me to know that he isn't annointed by God and does not deserve any more respect than a Universalist Unitarian who goes to "church" to enjoy the ambience.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 3:16:34 PM
|
|
|
Soxfan
Posts: 1496
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Regardless of the imperfections of his doctrine, he is communicating a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Joel Osteen wouldn't know Jesus if Jesus fell on him!
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 3:22:43 PM
|
|
|
Soxfan
Posts: 1496
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
I find it hard to perceive that he doesn't acknowledge Jesus atoning for sin. I have not observed that.
Against my better judgement, I'm going to do YOUR work for you. Test teaching against Scripture, and expose it when it is FALSE.
The following words come from an Easter sermon preached by Joel Osteen:
"And the third thing, because of all of what Jesus accomplished in the Resurrection; you and I have power and authority over the devil and demon forces. I can imagine when Jesus bowed His head and died on that cross, that Satan and all those demons they gathered in Hell for a great victory celebration. I can imagine it looked something like the victory party in the locker room after the Super Bowl. You can see them giving high five's and jumping around. Shouting with great excitement, We did it! We did it! I told you we could defeat Him! Now we're in control. Now we can do whatever we want. And can't you hear Satan laugh sarcastically and say to his demons, Aren't you glad you followed me now? Aren't you glad you revolted out of the heavens? I told you it'd be worth it.
Can’t you see Jesus looking right into Satan's eyes and saying, “Satan, I hate to spoil your victory party, but I think you're celebrating a little bit too soon”? You may have knocked me down, but you sure didn't knock me out. And it's not over until I say it's over. Satan says, Listen, Jesus, you're on my turf now. You don't have a chance down here. You're surrounded by my demons. We're going to tear you apart. And Jesus just smiles and says, “Go ahead, Satan, make my day!” (Congregation applauds) Jesus says, “Look, Satan, I'm down here to take care of business. I'm ready to do battle. I don't want to be here any longer than I have to be because it stinks down here.
The Bible indicates that for three days, Jesus went into the very depths of hell. (WRONG) Right into the enemy's own territory (WRONG). And He did battle with Satan face to face. (WRONG) Can you imagine what a show down that was? It was good vs. evil. Right vs. wrong. Holiness vs. filth. Here are the two most powerful forces in the universe have come together to do battle for the first time in history. (WRONG) But thank God. The Bible says, “Satan was no match for our Champion.” This was no contest. (Congregation applauds).
Jesus crushed Satan’s head with His foot. He bruised his head. And He once and for all, forever defeated and dethroned and demoralized our enemy. One translation says, “He paralyzed him and rendered him powerless”. But thank God. He didn't even stop there. He went over and ripped the keys of death and hell out of Satan’s hands. (WRONG) And He grabbed Satan by the nap of his neck and He began to slowly drag him down through the corridors of Hell. (WRONG) All beat up and bruised because He wanted to make sure that every single demon saw very clearly that Jesus was indeed the undisputed Champion of all time! Amen?
The Bible says in Colossians 2:15 that God “disarmed the principalities and powers ranged against us and he made a bold display and a public example of Satan's defeat.”
(Joel Osteen Sermon #CS_002-4-23-00, copy on file)
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 6:26:48 PM
|
|
|
gmc4Jesus
Posts: 222
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Joel has not gone to Seminary, where he might have been informed on those issues. He is still growing in his walk as you and I are still growing in ours.
If anyone is still growing and is not able to proclaim the solid word, he has no business being an elder, much less a pastor.
I need to know what you mean by “proclaim the solid word”. What is the test by which we determine this is “solid word” and this is not? Is there a Scripture reference that you can reference?
In Mark 9:38-41, John thought he was justified in stopping a man who was driving out demons in Jesus name, but was not solid in his word because he was not one of the Apostles. Jesus told John that “Who is not against us is for us.”
In Acts 18:24-26, Apollos was knowledgeable of the Scriptures, but was not as informed about Jesus’ baptism as Aquila and Priscilla. They did not ban or condemn him, but came to him and explained the Word of God more accurately.
We do have a challenge and responsibility to search the Word of God and speak its truths, but I have observed in over 40 years of adult Christian ministry that many are solid, yet immature. Fortunately, God is a God of grace and He doesn't stop or condemn a person because they are not yet mature in their understanding and style of proclaiming the love God has for us in the way God has gifted them to do it.
I am yet to find a Scripture that prevents a man from proclaiming Jesus just because he isn’t adequately grounded in the Word.
Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinn, Robert Schueller, John McArthur, Jack Hayford, Chuck Swindoll, John Hagee, Jesse Duplaintis and many other ministers in large and small churches are going to have areas of their doctrine and preaching that you and I are going to disagree with. God does not demand perfection or no one would be qualified to proclaim the solid word. We are all a work in progress.
Where is God’s grace towards a brother’s preaching? Anyone you or I put forth as a preacher of a solid word style is going to be criticized by someone else who comes from a different background. Who is to decide which is right and which one needs loving consel so they can become more solid?
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 8:04:09 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 361
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Joel has not gone to Seminary, where he might have been informed on those issues. He is still growing in his walk as you and I are still growing in ours.
If anyone is still growing and is not able to proclaim the solid word, he has no business being an elder, much less a pastor.
I need to know what you mean by “proclaim the solid word”. What is the test by which we determine this is “solid word” and this is not? Is there a Scripture reference that you can reference?
In Mark 9:38-41, John thought he was justified in stopping a man who was driving out demons in Jesus name, but was not solid in his word because he was not one of the Apostles. Jesus told John that “Who is not against us is for us.”
In Acts 18:24-26, Apollos was knowledgeable of the Scriptures, but was not as informed about Jesus’ baptism as Aquila and Priscilla. They did not ban or condemn him, but came to him and explained the Word of God more accurately.
We do have a challenge and responsibility to search the Word of God and speak its truths, but I have observed in over 40 years of adult Christian ministry that many are solid, yet immature. Fortunately, God is a God of grace and He doesn't stop or condemn a person because they are not yet mature in their understanding and style of proclaiming the love God has for us in the way God has gifted them to do it.
I am yet to find a Scripture that prevents a man from proclaiming Jesus just because he isn’t adequately grounded in the Word.
Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinn, Robert Schueller, John McArthur, Jack Hayford, Chuck Swindoll, John Hagee, Jesse Duplaintis and many other ministers in large and small churches are going to have areas of their doctrine and preaching that you and I are going to disagree with. God does not demand perfection or no one would be qualified to proclaim the solid word. We are all a work in progress.
Where is God’s grace towards a brother’s preaching? Anyone you or I put forth as a preacher of a solid word style is going to be criticized by someone else who comes from a different background. Who is to decide which is right and which one needs loving consel so they can become more solid?
Matt 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
No doubt in Gods grace, people will still get saved from some of the teachings of these false prophets. However a lot of poison goes together with the food thats dished out as well.
So their fruits are not important? How do you heed the Lord's commandment above then?
Are you build on the Rock of our salvation or mens itching doctrines? Is it not a concern when the sheep is fed with food laced with poison as well? Or are you more concerned that men with reputation is put down because of unclean teachings?
Shalom
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 4/23/2008 10:12:37 PM
|
|
|
musicboss11
Posts: 480
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
gmc, I have a couple of questions for you. Do you believe that faith in Christ is the only way to heaven? Do you believe that those who rejct Christ will spend eternity apart from him? I understand what your saying about maturity, education, different views on non-essental beliefs etc. This isn't a hymns vs modern music debate. Faith in Christ, salvation, etc. are essental beliefs. It's not a matter of education either. Even a young child can understand salvation, and faith in Christ.
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
