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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 1:22:38 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2602
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Are you aware that there are Baptists who don't believe in Eternal Security as it's taught in many Baptists churches?My next question,When God saves us ,does He also do away with our free will?Who created evil,and why?Every time I heard a sermon on Eternal Security I marked down the scripture took it home and studied on it and every time without fail I could see where the Pastor ignored scripture just before or after that changed the meaning of what he was trying to prove.Don't skip over the If's and but's of the scripture.They're small words but VERY POWERFUL!
Well, Yustme, I thought YOU were the one who thought all Baptists were the same! I am glad to see that you don't think that. Baptists are more varied in their teachings than most churches that come under a singular name.
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Well, I admit that I don't understand all this stuff, which is why I decided to take a class on salvation that includes the ideas of eternal security and its opponents. We are all extremely influenced by our backgrounds, by the religious organizations with which we choose to associate, and further influenced by our responses to religious entities. These all color our understandings of the Bible and its teachings, and we speak of what we think as "truth."
I'll tell you what: I believe like a Calvinist, pray like a Calvinist, seek G-d's will like a Calvinist and live like an Arminian. By this, I intend:
* I believe like a Calvinist -- recognizing that I am imperfect and that I do sin
* pray like a Calvinist -- seeking forgiveness constantly upon recognition of my imperfection
* seek G-d's will like a Calvinist -- trying to live as close to Him as possible but with the joyous knowledge that He is keeping me; I cannot keep myself
* and live like a holiness-Arminian, as I was reared -- straightlaced and anal about some things when it comes to judgment of myself
Maybe someday, that analysis will change.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 1:48:39 PM
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yustme
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I'm not very good with words.In fact so many times I say things and it comes out all wrong.Then I have to try and explain what I mean.I agree with a whole lot of what you said.I've told my husband so many times I'm so imperfect sometimes it scares me.But I do believe and always will believe that even though God is able ,completely able,to keep me secure in His salvation,He will not keep me against my will.If I CHOOSE to go the way of the world and reject Him then I have walked away from my security.I know the Baptist say a true believer wont do that.I know it can happen,even to a true believer,cause it happened to me.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 2:11:31 PM
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StephK
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Evidently you didn't stray so far from God that you were out of His reach since you are here right?
I've been a prodigal myself. Yet God in His grace, mercy and love was waiting for me to get over myself and run to Him. He was faithful to me even when I did not deserve it. He evidently was faithful to you too. You might want to read the prodigal son passage again.
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Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 2:46:09 PM
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yustme
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I know that passage very well.I have a daughter that is a prodical and I'm very scared for her.She says she's saved with her mouth,but her life style is FAR from it.I led her to the Lord and wow what a change there was in her life.She got in with the wrong crowd and oh my she sure has gone the wrong way.I asked her how she was with the Lord and her answer was,depends on how you believe.If you believe in OSAS,I'm just fine.If not then well.And that was her answer.I will forever regret bringing her up in the Baptist church.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 2:48:22 PM
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propitiated4
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I believe the story of the prodigal is a picture of a new believer( and God's grace), not one who has walked away after recieving the gift of salvation.
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Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 4:04:34 PM
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yustme
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My dad said several yrs ago that he believed no preacher should ever Pastor any church before they did indepth study on all Doctrines.He studied the Doctrines of every faith.He was a Nazarene preacher by choice,but he believed firmly the Doctrine of rejecting the salvation of Jesus.Or in other words a person could backslide even to the point of "losing their salvation".Yes I know it's not their salvation,but a saved person CAN walk away from the security of Jesus.And many do.Not always do they come back to Christ.Don't try to tell me a true believer will come back because I know that doesn't always happen.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 6:56:50 PM
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GodisLove1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GodisLove1
I believe this quote from Walter Martin in his book titled "Kingdom of the Cults" is the best defense for Eternal Security that I have seen.
"Some Christians make a great issue of the teaching of "eternal security," and perhaps rightly so because it is an important truth. However, no matter how strongly we may feel about it, our conviction does not entitle us to judge the motives and spiritual condition of other believers in this respect. This is our principal reason for taking the position that some OSAS apponents are christians who believe the historic gospel message. They cannot rightly be called non-Christian cultists or "judaizers," since the are sound on the great New Testament doctrines including gace and redemption through the vicarious offering of Jesus CHrist "once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and give evidence of "life in Christ."
For many centuries, there has been much controversy over the juxtaposition of the principles of law and grace in the Scripture. If evangelicals today wer asked, "Do you believe that grace and law are in direct opposition?" the answer in most cases would be a strong affirmative. Through the years, confusion has been caused by the abuse of both principals by two groups of equally sincere Christians. One group believes that all law has ceased; the other that the Ten Commandments are still God's standard of righteousness and must be obeyed or salvation is forfeit. What both groups have failed to grasp is that the great conflict is not between law and grace as such;rather, it centers around a proper understanding of their relationship and respective functions.
We have established that love is the ground and source of the doctrine of grace, but the law was necessary to expose the sinfulness of sin and the depth of man's moral depravity. When law becomes the ground of salvation or of restraining the Christian from practicing sin, it intrudes upon the province of grace. When a Christian is not controlled by love, grace is abused and its purpose nulified. All law is fulfilled by love, as our Savior and the apostles taught, but the Christian can never please God if he obeys for fear of the law. Life under law binds the soul, for the tendency is for man to obey not because he wants to please God but because he fears God's judgment. Under grace, love works upon the regenerate heart, and what was legalistic duty under law becomes gracious obedience under grace. Actually, grace and love demand more than the law, which to the Pharisees required only outward obedience. Grace commands us to "do the will of God from the heart" ( Eph. 6:6). Some declare that they obey the law not out of fear but out of love for God, but it is to be regretted that in a large proportion of their literature on the subject, they declare that the keeping of the law is necessary to maintain salvation, and thus they introduce the motive of fear instead of the Biblical imperative of love.
The Apostile John defined the issue when he wrote, "the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17). As a governing principle, a measure of righteousness, a schoolmaster and an instrument of death, the law was supplanted by grace- the unmerited favor of God. All believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, having passed from death to life through the sacrifice of the Son of God, possess the devine nature and righteousness. Because he first loved us, we are compelled and impelled to love and serve Him. In obedience to the great law of love, the Christian fulfills the righteousness of the law (not the law itself: this Christ alone did); and by the transforming power of the indwelling Holy Spirit he will "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:4)
Some though still do believe, we repeat, that they are saved by grace. However, they are often prone to believe that their remaining saved depends on "commandment-keeping" which again intrudes upon the province of grace.
Is everyone ignoring me?
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 7:00:15 PM
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GodisLove1
Posts: 51
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I know that passage very well.I have a daughter that is a prodical and I'm very scared for her.She says she's saved with her mouth,but her life style is FAR from it.I led her to the Lord and wow what a change there was in her life.She got in with the wrong crowd and oh my she sure has gone the wrong way.I asked her how she was with the Lord and her answer was,depends on how you believe.If you believe in OSAS,I'm just fine.If not then well.And that was her answer.I will forever regret bringing her up in the Baptist church.
If I may ask, just what is it that makes you think she has "gone the wrong way?"
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/30/2007 8:01:40 PM
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GodisLove1
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quote:
I know that passage very well.I have a daughter that is a prodical and I'm very scared for her.She says she's saved with her mouth,but her life style is FAR from it
Do you claim to know what's in her heart?
Any judgement made about someones relationship with the Lord that is based on the works of their "flesh" will always be a condeming judgement.
If she says she is saved, I would ask her how she knows she is saved? The answer to that question should let any true Christian know where she truly stands with the Lord.
However, for us to tell her she "is not" saved, based on the deeds of the flesh, would be wrong and inconsistant with scripture. Also for us to suggest to her that she "may not" be saved, if she does... or does'nt do... is to plant doubt in her mind and that can be a very damaging thing to a persons emotional health as well as their spiritual health.
For if someone accused me of not truly being saved because of the sinful deeds of my flesh, I might first wonder if I was ever truly saved. Then I would wrestle with the question that maybe the sinful things I still do, after having accepting Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior, means I truly didn't mean it. This is a terrible place for any Christian to be.
I say this because it would tend to lead someone to falsely "think" that once the are saved (which the scripture clearly tells us that "Today is the day of Salvation.") that they will never again commit a sin. Then every sin they commit brings their salvation into question again. Soon they might find themselves worried about why they do the things they wish they didnt do and why they don't do the thing the wish they did do. This could easily lead them to beleive that God has written them off as a lost cause, which couldn't be farther from the TRUTH!
They might eventually start focusing more on trying to be a perfect person, by the works of their flesh, not to gain or re-gain salvation but to prove (to themselves) that they are truly a child of God. This would be futile. No one can prove (to themselves or anyone else) that they are truly a child of God by the good works of the flesh. For if one believes that it is the good works of the flesh that proves that their a child of God, they are very prong to put themselves up on a pedistal and look down upon those of us who know we are flawed.
This could then become a problem in itself. For every true Christian knows they are sinful, but now they see themselves as trying to be perfect in their flesh. This could, to them, seem blasphamous twords the Lord. As if his once and for all scrifice on the cross of calvery was not enough to pay for all of their sin.
Oh how terrible a place for a Christian to be!
Where do they have to turn then?
They become affraid that they are trying to be "good enough" to "earn" or "keep" their salvation, which they know they can't do,
And at the same time they feel, as though they have lost trust in the Lords ability to save and keep them. Because if they had not, they would'nt be trying to be "good enough."
I have been there my friends and it's not a place I would ever wish even my worst enemy to be!
Lord God, help us to spread the good news of Jesus Christ to others and then let You take it from there. Amen
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2007 7:05:28 AM
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SureHope
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propitiated4,
quote:
If Christ died once and was ressurected once, and it says believers died once and are resurrected once with Him, then we can't possibly lose our salvation..
I am glad you brought Romans chapter six into the discussion. Romans six contains the first place in the letter to the Romans where they (and we) are exhorted to do something. Everything up to that point has been a description of fallen man's state before God and God's way of righteousness. Romans chapter six describes the Lord Jesus dying to the realm of sin and death, never to enter it again.
knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. (Romans 6:9-10 NASB)
The Lord Jesus "is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him." To make it ever clearer the apostle writes, "the death that He died, He died to sin once for all." He will never enter the realm of sin and death again - this is sure.
At this point the apostle Paul gives his first exhortation in his letter to the Romans . . .
Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:11 NASB)
"Even so" (houto - so; kai - and; "and so") can be translated "in the same way". In the same way that the Lord Jesus has died to the realm of sin and death once and forever, never to enter it again, "so consider yourself to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus." Consider that you have already died to sin and death in the same way that the Lord Jesus has died to sin and death.
My assurance lies within the fact that Christ has died to sin and death once forever and the fact that I have been united with Christ in His death burial and resurrection. Because of this union I have died to sin and have been made alive to God. It is upon this basis alone that I have confidence and encouragement to rest in Christ knowing that I will never enter the realm of sin and death again. It is upon this basis alone that I have the confidence and encouragement not let sin reign in my mortal body.
This does not mean I will never sin again, but that I will not enter the realm of sin and death and be under the realm of the Law and thus be condemned.
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2007 7:36:40 AM
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SureHope
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A quote from Dr. C. Matthew McMahon taken from oldtruth.com
quote:
There are common misconceptions about the doctrine of The Perseverance of the Saints. This doctrine does not mean "once saved always saved". This corruption of the doctrine has been popular in recent years, but has never been a true representation of the doctrine.
"but I'm saved and I'm going to go to heaven no matter what I do"
"Once saved always saved" is more keenly given the name "Perseverance of the Sinner" instead of "the saint" for it teaches that man can be saved by Christ and then sin habitually, do whatever he wants, and still "persevere to the end". It is often used as an excuse and caricature of [Calvinism] because such a teaching does in fact bring reproach on those who would believe it. The Bible does not say that a man can be a Christian and may never change. To say that one is eternally secure and that such a man may still sin any way is a false misrepresentation of the doctrine as a whole. Perseverance of The Saints teaches that once God has renewed the heart of a sinner through the application of the redemption wrought by Christ upon the cross, He will continue to be saved and show forth the fruits of that salvation. The sinner perseveres because of Christ, but he continually shows himself as one who has been changed by Christ. God has saved the individual and will sanctify him until the end when he is ultimately glorified, and in heaven. It does not mean man has a license to sin. Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2007 3:35:11 PM
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yustme
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Ya know,we could go on and on an on about this thing of the two Doctrines and we'll never convince each other.If you were brought up in OSAS there is certain verces that is very convincing and also true to the fact of OSAS.However,if you follow clear from the beginning with fall of Adam and eve and you connect the scriptures through the OT on through to the end of the Bible it is so clear that we have a responsibility if we want to remain (or abide)in Jesus which is our Security.Yes He died one time for everyone,but He knew everyone would battle with the flesh.So therefore He gave us the freedom of choice.Even when we choose Him He still gives us our right to abide in Him and remain secure or go the way of the world and leave His security.Remember,the Bible is FULL of if's and but's.However,if you were brought up in the Doctrine of OSAS there's no way you can understand the other side.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 10/31/2007 4:18:05 PM
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SureHope
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Ya know,we could go on and on an on about this thing of the two Doctrines and we'll never convince each other.If you were brought up in OSAS there is certain verces that is very convincing and also true to the fact of OSAS.However,if you follow clear from the beginning with fall of Adam and eve and you connect the scriptures through the OT on through to the end of the Bible it is so clear that we have a responsibility if we want to remain (or abide)in Jesus which is our Security.Yes He died one time for everyone,but He knew everyone would battle with the flesh.So therefore He gave us the freedom of choice.Even when we choose Him He still gives us our right to abide in Him and remain secure or go the way of the world and leave His security.Remember,the Bible is FULL of if's and but's.However,if you were brought up in the Doctrine of OSAS there's no way you can understand the other side.
I was not brought up as a Christian and went to a Bible school that emphasized that a Christain can loose his or her salvation. It is the Scripture that has convinced me otherwise.
I believe that each of us have freedom of choice. If it were not for God working in me I would choose sin and I would fall away. But God works in me to see the desirability of Christ and the desirability to walk with Christ. I may sin, but repent because of the grace of God working in me. And since I have died to the Law, died to the realm of sin and death and know I am alive in Christ I have a foundation upon which I have confidence and assurance. Assurance that salvation has been purchased and given to me in spite of myself and confindence that I can resist temptation and desire to resist temptation.
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2007 4:18:38 PM
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yustme
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Surehope,If this is truly what you believe in,dig in and go for it.It's not my place to change anyones beliefs.I just don't want anyone thinking that I live in fear because I know a saved person can backslide and be lost in hell.If you're living for the Lord,there is no need to fear.But I still say for those who were brought up Baptist can't possibly understand the other side.BTW,I too dug into the scriptures to learn the truth.That's why I believe the way I do.I asked the H.S. to be my teacher,not man.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/1/2007 8:15:31 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Yustme, we all ask the H Spirit to be our teacher, and we all believe we are on the right track because we are sure that He is the one guiding and teaching us, not a human teacher.
Over the years, I have met many who have said that they knew a certain thing because they were taught of the H Spirit, and they were way off track. That could also be said of me, of you, or anyone on this thread.
Our responsibility, then, is to accept that we are pupils whom the H Spirit is teaching, but we are often dull of spirit and dull of mind. What will tell the tale, then, is not if we perceive ourselves to be running the race but if we finish the race with that victor's crown.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/2/2007 8:48:19 AM
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yustme
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I'm an so sorry.I was trying to condense my story of why I believe the way I do and I came of sounding like I was on a spiritual pedistool.I didn't mean it the way it sounded.So to ANYONE who read my post,I'm sorry if I offended you.Thank you for being kind about it.Later,I will tell you how I came to believe what I do.I just wanted to apologize in this post.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/2/2007 11:18:24 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Yustme, let me tell you what I think of you. I think you are a sweet lady with an humble spirit, and no one is going to think you are anything else, even if they disagree with you. It never occurred to me that you were writing out of pride.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/3/2007 2:02:40 PM
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yustme
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Thank you,but I'm so undeserving of that.heres my story.thirty two yrs ago when we left the Nazarene church and began attending a Baptist church.After a yr. or two in it,I became very frustrated with the teaching of OSAS because I know what I had been taught all my life and the scriptures they were useing I could so many loop holes in them and they were interjecting there own thoughts of what the scripture was saying.When they talked about some in the Bible who had backslid they would never say they were lost eternally,they would always say"God took them Home early.They didn't lose their salvation,just their rewards."One day I knelt down at my couch with my Bible in front of me and told the Lord I want to know the truth.Can I lose your salvation or am I Eternally secure no matter how far in sin I go.Right then,the Lord spoke to my heart and said,"Follow what I show you in my Word.I don't know why God allows some to believe one way and others to believe something different.But for me,I have to believe what I believe God showed me.To all of you,I trust someday we will be in Heaven together and thie subject will no longer matter.God bless all of you.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/3/2007 10:23:18 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
To all of you,I trust someday we will be in Heaven together and thie subject will no longer matter.God bless all of you.
Exactly. Fortunately, it is up to our G-d, not to us. He knows full-well those who are His, no matter what our theology.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/5/2007 7:39:48 AM
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yustme
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AMEN!!!!
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/5/2007 3:39:30 PM
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GodisLove1
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quote:
I just don't want anyone thinking that I live in fear because I know a saved person can backslide and be lost in hell.
I don't think that most people here believe you live in fear. I know I don't think you live in fear. You seem to be so convinced on your stance of the possibility of loosing your salvation, that your sure you never will.
However, this stance says one thing to most of us who don't believe we can ever loose our salvation, and that is; The fact that we DONT believe we can ever loose our salvation, is the one thing that puts us at the greatest risk of actually doing just that. So this belief has nothing to do with you living in fear. Rather, it has everything to do with causing others to live in fear. Fear of loosing thier salvation just because they don't believe it is possible.
You want everyone to KNOW you don't live in fear, probably because, you know fear is not from God. But, at the same time you convey the message that anyone who don't believe they could somehow loose their salvation after having accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, should be very afraid. Many will then, go so far as to say "if you are living in fear, it is positive proof that your not truly saved."
This is a double standard.
It says, "I know I will never loose my salvation, because I am aware that the possibility exist".
and "you whom don't believe the possibility exist, must be made aware that it does so you too will never loose your salvation." This whole concept suggests that there is someting we "have to do" in order to maintain our salvation. This would ultimately, mean that our salvation is dependent upon our works, whatever man defines them as.
But, most of us who KNOW we are eternaly secure because of what Christ has done for us on the cross, and us having believed have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise until the day of redemption, don't accuse those who beleive they can somehow be lost again after having been born again, of being willful deceivers, but rather we know that your failure to grasp this Biblical truth, is also forgiven you through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Therefore, we make no judgement of you. We do not have that authority.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/6/2007 1:00:54 PM
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yustme
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I don't live in fear because I choose to live as close to Christ as I can because I love Him and I want to please Him.Some time ago,after hearing over an over how people who believe they could lose their salvation,I went to my dad,He was in the ministry for 60yrs,and I asked him if he lived in fear of loseing his salvation?He kinda chuckled then sain "No honey I don't.I used to when I first became a Christion because I wanted to be a Christian,but I also wanted to continue to do some of the things I did in the world".Then he told me this,"I have been in the ministry for 60yrs and I've come to realize why people fear loseing their salvation,when people want to be a Christian and yet want to still enjoy some of the sins of the world,that's when fear takes place."No my friend,we don't live in fear none of us.But I will say this,that's what the Baptist keep dwelling on.People who were born or brought up Baptist believe we do live in fear because that's what their taught.I know because I've heard it for 32yrs.
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/6/2007 2:40:25 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4680
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Thank you,but I'm so undeserving of that.heres my story.thirty two yrs ago when we left the Nazarene church and began attending a Baptist church.After a yr. or two in it,I became very frustrated with the teaching of OSAS because I know what I had been taught all my life and the scriptures they were useing I could so many loop holes in them and they were interjecting there own thoughts of what the scripture was saying.When they talked about some in the Bible who had backslid they would never say they were lost eternally,they would always say"God took them Home early.They didn't lose their salvation,just their rewards."One day I knelt down at my couch with my Bible in front of me and told the Lord I want to know the truth.Can I lose your salvation or am I Eternally secure no matter how far in sin I go.Right then,the Lord spoke to my heart and said,"Follow what I show you in my Word.I don't know why God allows some to believe one way and others to believe something different.But for me,I have to believe what I believe God showed me.To all of you,I trust someday we will be in Heaven together and thie subject will no longer matter.God bless all of you.
I spent more than 30 years as a Free Will Baptist and considered the Southern Baptist the enemy of truth. The Lord eventually allowed me to be driven away from the FWB because of the direction the denomination was going into extreme legalism and I ended up in an SBC church. One day it occurred to me that even though I fanatically believed someone could renounce their faith and go to hell after being saved, I never once thought I could possibly make such a decision because, like Peter, I knew there was no sane alternative to my Lord. I guess I thought others were vulnerable, but I was confident I would stand firm until the end.
I also came to understand that boths sides recognized how a lost soul lived, but one side was willing to call him a one time brother.
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If you dissect every delicate and rare bird you come across then you just end up with a mound of decaying carcasses instead of the wonder and beauty God intended. -JimboFletch
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/6/2007 5:48:23 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 545
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
I will forever regret bringing her up in the Baptist church.
I wasn't saved until I was 43, so I could have lots of regrets about all those years not raising my children to know and love God. The day I was saved I confessed this sin to God outloud. I can sit here and think about all those years when God meant little to me and I passed my indifference on to my sons. Boy, have I wished I hadn't done that, but what else was I to do? I wasn't God's child then. I couldn't pass on to my boys what I myself did not possess (faith). I have come to see my boys in God's hands. He loves them more than I do. I must hold fast to the hope I have that God will see my children home--and He will see your child home, too. It's not about your years in the Baptist church or my years in no church. I long for the day my two sons will accept Chist, but until that day I keep hope before me and my heart prays for them. Where ever you chose to worship (or not as in my case) our kids are in God's hands. He is perfectly capable of bringing our kids home to Him. We must trust God to do just that.
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Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: Salvation and Eternal Security - One Stop Thread - 11/7/2007 9:48:48 AM
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wacotton
Posts: 765
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
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Actually my OSAS doctrine, says you can't live like the devil, because if you are and aren't repentant, and don't feel any different about sin than you did before, then you weren't really saved in the first place. I see the parable of the vineyard in the way I just described. If one sees salvation in the 2 ways you described, it is dangerous.
Does any etertnal security-believer say that a believer can "live like the devil" and remain saved, or is that purely a myth taught by those who believe they live without sinning? I have only heard that accusation claimed by those who think they live without sinning but never by eternal security-believers.
I had a baptist pastor tell me in exact terms, "no matter what you do you can't lose your salvation"
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Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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