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spinoff from europe is doomed... - 7/4/2008 8:00:41 AM
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everjoyful
Posts: 123
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This is an article from the Independant newspaper today. It's very thought provoking. I don't agree with muslim beliefs and laws and obviousely I oppose terrorism. But I am increasingly worried about the level of Islamaphobia in the west. Especially as the muslim population of my country is about 2%.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-enemy-within-fear-of-islam-britains-new-disease-859996.html
Please read this article and consider what it says. I believe some very good points are made. 
_____________________________
john 14 v27...do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
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RE: spinoff from europe is doomed... - 7/4/2008 8:49:18 AM
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Sophie11
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I agree with you that "Islamophobia" has many times been taken way too far in certain countries and/or areas, but I must say I think given what some Islamic leaders and communities have said they want to do to other countries, an amount of distrust is almost required. Now I don't mean that for every single muslim, please do not get me wrong.
But even the man in the article you quoted, Sarfraz Sarwar, is calling for sharia law to become law in Britain. I would have to suspect that most people's fear of muslims is due to the fact that in almost every country you can find a group of islamists trying to get that country to introduce sharia, trying to make every country "more muslim".
It may be a shame the extent some people choose to act on their fear, but I cannot say that it is intelligent to have no fear either, given what many muslim leaders have said.
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RE: spinoff from europe is doomed... - 7/4/2008 10:13:28 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1178
Joined: 7/31/2007
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Well, we have the same problem in the US, to some extent, with hispanics.
I'm wondering how much of this is that people are scared of Islam, and how much of this is the basic expectation of host countries that immigrants to those countries will adopt their way of life, their language, their cultural norms, etc.
The problem with immigrants today seems to be that they don't want to adopt the language, they don't want to try to fit in. They want all the benefits that their new country has over their old country... but they want to gain them by basically bringing a small piece of their old country into their new one. People in their new country tend to resent this. There appears to be a level of fear, whether justified or not, that if people bring the old, more oppressive/corrupt/violence-stricken/economically bad off/etc country into this new country, that the new country will to some extent basically devolve into the problems of the old country as a result.
So when people in Britain see things like the whole craziness in Scotland over a cute postcard with a dog on it, when they see people who appear to dislike the British culture and prefer a culture that the British see as oppressive and potentially violent, they're going to resent that. Just as people in the US resent it when they see people who refuse to learn the language, who refuse to follow immigration law, etc, in this country.
It's a difficult problem and frankly without a level of give and take from both sides, it's not going to get solved.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: spinoff from europe is doomed... - 7/4/2008 10:27:28 PM
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Starbucks880
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This article does give some good points. There has been some of the same thing in the US, but that has kind of gone into the background as they focus their irrational fears on the Hispanics. Unfortunately, I don't see the Islamophobia changing anytime soon. The media tends to focus on the extremist Muslims and then uninformed people assume that even mainstream Muslims are like that, when it can't be further from the truth.
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RE: spinoff from europe is doomed... - 7/4/2008 11:47:41 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 522
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everjoyful,
I tried reading the link you sighted but quickly found that I could not because it seemed to be so slanted. Considering the title, and your encouragement to read it, I quess I should have expected it to be nothing more than what it seemed to be.
It is really sad that instead of addressing issues and finding some kind of solution people find it necessary to attach -phobia onto the end of a title and label people who do not see the world as they do so that they may more easily intimidate opposition into silence.
Prejudice and discrimination has been a fact of life throughout the history of man. Just about every people group in America, or in any other country, has been subject to discrimination of one sort or other. Then, when another people group moves in, they too become part of the problem as they discriminate and find reason not to relate to the new people group.
As someone has noted, part of the problem, nowadays, is the fact that people groups moving into another country seem to have little to no intention to assimilate into their new home, but expect others to assimilate to them. As a result they themselves are fostering the hard feelings that exist; that they feel directed towards them.
Though it may be true that the media tends to foster stereotypes, as far as Muslims are concerned, it seem to be that Muslims themselves are aiding that perception of who they are and what they stand for. They do this, to a large extent, by making sure that the more moderate voices in their community are not heard from, and silencing Muslims who dare to publicly examine and question Islam in any way, shape or form, to any degree.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: spinoff from europe is doomed... - 7/5/2008 12:04:26 AM
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galadriel2
Posts: 128
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Fear isn't a disease. In most cases it is a sin or else it is correctly directed towards God in the right way - an affectionate fear to offend one who loves you so much and who you love.
As far as Islamophobia being abundant in Britain - I would have to go over there and investigate for myself to ascertain if the premise is true.
God bless all,
Galadriel2
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RE: spinoff from europe is doomed... - 7/5/2008 4:59:05 AM
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everjoyful
Posts: 123
Joined: 1/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
everjoyful,
I tried reading the link you sighted but quickly found that I could not because it seemed to be so slanted. Considering the title, and your encouragement to read it, I quess I should have expected it to be nothing more than what it seemed to be.
I am genuinely sorry that you found this to be the case.
I am merely trying to highlight that fear does overide rational thinking and then widespread persecution occurs.
After a while we forget the specifics of what we find hard to accept about a group and then we begin to listen to all negative statements without checking the validity of claims.
This is why it's been possible for religeous groups in the past to be widely accepted as evolutionarily inferior or to be labeled rapists and baby eaters and to be killed without anyone even wondering why.
As I said in my first post I don't agree with Islamic teaching and law, I find somethings plain unnacceptable in them. However all the muslims that I have met personally say that they have to abide by the laws of the country they are in. I can only conclude then that most want to live peacefully but there will be a percentage who take the faith to the extreme just as we christians have christian groups such as westboro who are extremist. All sorts of people call themselves christians and use it as an excuse to carry out terrible things. Same with every faith.
(I have worked with muslims and have had some fascinating conversations about faith with them. I have never met one who was aggressive or rude to me.)
If someone had contact with westboro or a white supremesist christian group they may well carry a negetive view about christianity. Especially if they got as much press as extremist muslims do. And that assumption would offend most of us. In the same way we are looking at the extremist muslims and concluding that all muslim people must be scum. They are not. Jesus loves them as much as he loves us and he wants to bring them to salvation just as much as he wanted us. I read that most muslim converts have spiritual experiences that turn them to Jesus. Is that because we are not reaching out to them? because we fear them? Just some thoughts.
Thankyou for the well thought out responses. It has been great to debate this hope it continues
_____________________________
john 14 v27...do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
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